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Thread: 3rd wave feminism

  1. #1411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Generally only the financial aspects of the relationship are regulated, e.g. alimony and division of assets. I have never heard of courts in the modern age punishing anyone simply for infidelity, or requiring someone to stay in a marriage in order to fulfill their marriage vows.

    As I understand it, slut shaming is generally reserved for women who want to "play the field" in lieu of a single committed relationship; not to women who enter a commited relationship and then violate it.
    ...And parental & child rights, which we've talked about right here, which is regulating aspects of the relationship that aren't in themselves financial (Not to mention the financial aspects are almost never strictly financial either). Even regarding infidelity, while it's not common in itself, there are states that allow prenups to make specific clauses for infidelity that do hold up in court, while else where they don't. My point was that we do regulate commitments made in relationships as we regulate commitments in many other aspects of life, we simply choose which ones we do or don't on a case by case basis, with situations we choose to regulate and situations we choose not too. There isn't a general "no entitlement rule", while it might be true ethically (debatable), it's not what we do as a society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Generally only the financial aspects of the relationship are regulated, e.g. alimony and division of assets. I have never heard of courts in the modern age punishing anyone simply for infidelity, or requiring someone to stay in a marriage in order to fulfill their marriage vows.
    .
    When critiqued in feminist circles it's usually referenced in general terms of sexually active women without mentioning of particular circumstances in order to appear as an attack on female sexuality in general. In common practice it's used overwhelmingly for cheating, not exclusively but close too it. My general point was that in a way we are more accountable then ever despite a lack of legal accountability because our personal reputation is now searchable. This ranges from general purpose social media to specialized services like rate-a-guy. Note that in some cases there are legal risks here as well, such as slander, privacy violations, and so on.

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    On another note..

    Does anyone else have the sense that the most accurate elements within all those ideologies is the critique they give each other?

    The feminists & MGTOW are right - MRA truly do make a reactionist group that is unified by their fight against feminism rather then anything else. You can't argue for equal father's rights and then argue that we should go back to the providers-husbands and housewives, as that is the very dynamic that justifies keeping the father for financials support and giving the mother the major care taking time in the first place. Arguing against feminism matters very little when they can't seem to be able to choose the agenda they want to argue for, and yes, this means they need to loose some support, either loosing the neocons or the progressives, but it also means they get to actually do something beyond bickering.

    The feminists and MRA are right - you can't read an MGTOW blog post anywhere without misogyny spilling out on your shoes, unlike the MRA they are clearly not above excluding women from supporting them, and they are destined to go the same way as 2nd wave feminist lesbian separatism - you can only grow your movement so much when you require people to counter their basic physical and emotional needs and you are very unlikely to grow over time at all if you don't apply the most ancient meme transfer mechanism of all - raising children. And no, a small group of hermits tying up their dicks in a chastity belt in protest isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

    The MRA & MGTOW are right about most of what they have to say about feminism, which I would expend upon except that it would be too long since they barely actually say things other then attacking feminism, so instead I'll point at what IMO is the most notable exception - their historical reevaluation of 1st wave feminism on the inherently unverifiable basis of "it would have happened anyway". The old way was a rotten deal for everyone involved, both men and women, and we don't get to pretend feminist movement didn't bring that change about on the basis of "If they wouldn't someone else would" - credit doesn't work like that, and that someone else wasn't fast enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Generally only the financial aspects of the relationship are regulated, e.g. alimony and division of assets. I have never heard of courts in the modern age punishing anyone simply for infidelity, or requiring someone to stay in a marriage in order to fulfill their marriage vows.
    What?! You might want to disconnect from The Hive Mindtm. Infidelity is against U.S. military law on the grounds of good order, article 134 of the UCMJ and article 80 (attempt) could even be applied if sufficient evidence for 134 is not found. ~ High-profile cases put focus on UCMJ, adultery | Army Times | armytimes.com

    You can sue the 'mistress' (what do you call a guy? the mister?) in civil court for Alienation of Affection in 7 States. Alienation of affection is not limited to a physical infidelity it can also apply to emotional infidelity or cyber affairs.

    Wife Wins $9 Million From Husband's Alleged Mistress - ABC News

    Love affair comes with price: $1.4 million in damages - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

    Infidelity can/does affect divorce outcomes, irrespective of a no fault or fault divorce. This is dependent on 'how' the adultery was conducted. Using marital assets on the 'other', if there are kids involved and they see you and the 'other' together etc.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    The MRA & MGTOW are right about most of what they have to say about feminism, which I would expend upon except that it would be too long since they barely actually say things other then attacking feminism, so instead I'll point at what IMO is the most notable exception - their historical reevaluation of 1st wave feminism on the inherently unverifiable basis of "it would have happened anyway". The old way was a rotten deal for everyone involved, both men and women, and we don't get to pretend feminist movement didn't bring that change about on the basis of "If they wouldn't someone else would" - credit doesn't work like that, and that someone else wasn't fast enough.
    Feminism, it's a Maslow thing. 3rd wave feminism Yes something similar to modern feminism would have happened anyways due to economic abundance. Which is to say it's transitory, it comes and goes. Something similar to feminism already occurred during Roman times. Go ahead google it. When there isn't abundance 'feminism' disappears, but not really. Gynocentrism it's the vector.


    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    The feminists and MRA are right - you can't read an MGTOW blog post anywhere without misogyny spilling out on your shoes, unlike the MRA they are clearly not above excluding women from supporting them, and they are destined to go the same way as 2nd wave feminist lesbian separatism - you can only grow your movement so much when you require people to counter their basic physical and emotional needs and you are very unlikely to grow over time at all if you don't apply the most ancient meme transfer mechanism of all - raising children. And no, a small group of hermits tying up their dicks in a chastity belt in protest isn't going to convince anyone of anything.
    Have you heard of herbivore men? Sexual apathy in Japan

    Increasing number of Japanese men opt for bachelorhood ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

    Now look at the political climate and articles on the above subject in Japan.

    'Ban Abortion to Improve Birthrate' Says Japanese Politician - japanCRUSH
    'Tax Handsome Men, Increase Birthrate' Says Economic Analyst - japanCRUSH

    This has been going on for decades across the western world, Herbivore men, MGTOW are just labels to phenomenon or movement (really depends who you ask as to what 'it' is). At it's core Herbivore men & MGTOW is just a social adaptation to the environment.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Feminism brings lower birth rates, so fewer mouths to feed; greater female say in economics, including family spending, so available money goes to children, health, and education rather than alcohol and whores; and greater empowerment of women to be earners, bringing more money into the family.
    70% of U.S. GDP is consumer spending is the 'usual' figure used. Of that females are guesstimated to control 80%. All one has to do is turn on the TV and watch how much programming and how many commercials are targeting women. This seems to be the norm across cultures irrespective of 1st vs. 3rd world status.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Feminism, it's a Maslow thing. 3rd wave feminism Yes something similar to modern feminism would have happened anyways due to economic abundance. Which is to say it's transitory, it comes and goes. Something similar to feminism already occurred during Roman times. Go ahead google it. When there isn't abundance 'feminism' disappears, but not really. Gynocentrism it's the vector.
    ...That might describe feminism as a phenomena that emerges from certain circumstances, which is in itself questionable, but that doesn't take it away from the chain of causality, any more then your mom wrote your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Now look at the political climate and articles on the above subject in Japan.
    Japan has had a low birth rate problem long before the grass eaters movement, it's questionable whether they'd dented it one way or the other. The US on the other hand has enough of a population growth that even if the MGTOW somehow would create a dent in the population growth it wouldn't be noticeable, other then perhaps favoring a larger portion of it's growth from immigration.

    And this is in reference to MGTOW as a movement, in which there's a conscious choice to stay out of relationships. MGTOW as a larger phenomena is actually counter productive, since it is strictly limited to the choice not to marry, which means increased probability per child to live in a single parent household with his mother, which increases gynocentricism (We've talked about this btw, though I think you were tipsy).

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    Sleeping with the enemy can be fun.

    One of the richest rewards a man can experience in life is turning a raging feminist into a fully functional housewife.

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