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  1. #1361
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Dear Feminist, if you are true fighters for equality for women, go to countries that treat women like property and cattle and preach try to make a difference. Because there are countries that treat women like a man's property and I don't see you active in these areas.

    No I don't mean nothern American nations and Europe.

    And if you do, then people would start respecting you and it might work than demanding respect.

    Perhaps the men in your countries can out muscle these misogynistic nations so that you can liberate them there too?
    Some of us do. It is not practical for someone like me to travel to a place like Afghanistan or Somalia to work with oppressed women, but I research the organizations that do, and give them money. I also follow legislation here in the US that impacts women's ability to obtain refugee status here if necessary.

    On the other hand, I see feminism, like charity, as beginning at home. Just as I donate food to my neighborhood food pantry and volunteer with local school students, I take action to improve equality for women, men, other demographic groups right in my own backyard.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  2. #1362
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Some of us do. It is not practical for someone like me to travel to a place like Afghanistan or Somalia to work with oppressed women, but I research the organizations that do, and give them money. I also follow legislation here in the US that impacts women's ability to obtain refugee status here if necessary.

    On the other hand, I see feminism, like charity, as beginning at home. Just as I donate food to my neighborhood food pantry and volunteer with local school students, I take action to improve equality for women, men, other demographic groups right in my own backyard.
    That seems good enough. I think more and more people who believe in feminism should do this. Eventually these organizations would have enough money to be continuously be heard.

    Also,

    I realize one could argue with my initial post and say that first things first, we have to deal with our issues before dealing with women's rights in foreign countries.
    .

  3. #1363
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    That seems good enough. I think more and more people who believe in feminism should do this. Eventually these organizations would have enough money to be continuously be heard.

    Also,

    I realize one could argue with my initial post and say that first things first, we have to deal with our issues before dealing with women's rights in foreign countries.
    In deciding which are those first things that come first, one must consider two factors. (1) How serious the need is; and (2) how much of an impact one can make. Local issues easily win most times on factor (2) simply because of accessibility. Often we can do both, especially if it is the same issue, e.g. feminism, or education, or medical care for the poor.

    There is also an aspect of having our own house in order before helping others. This is partly because we are more effective helping others when our own needs are being met. When it comes to acting in other parts of the world, however, there is also an element of integrity or consistency involved. How convincing are we at mediating in a racial conflict overseas when we have race riots at home due to concerns about policing and profiling? How well can we promote democracy when our own electoral system appears corrupted by money, and laws like the patriot act make serious inroads on our citizens' freedom? How do we look advocating for women's rights when our own constitution doesn't even guarantee equal rights for women and men?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  4. #1364
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    ...No.

    Yes there is some direct help, mostly by sponsoring local organizations like the Malala Fund, which is fantastic.

    But increasingly in the echo chamber you notice an almost religious notion that fighting the "patriarchy" anywhere is fighting the patriarchy and helping women everywhere, that the protests in American and Canadian universities about literature they find offensive is somehow by magical powers also helping the women in the middle east get access to literature in the first place. In reality, it does the exact opposite:
    Right now there are two Arabs having coffee after a day of work, one of them has heard his wife talk about how she wishes she could have finished school, and he is very proud at how bright his daughter is and stops to think about her future. He brings it up to his friend, and his friend gets to point at the modern manifestations of western feminism and say "This is what it leads too", and... And that's the end of that, and the millions of conversations like that.
    To put this in American terms, who just had a major step about gay marriage - imagine how that political dialogue would have looked like if there were real countries that actually had a history of following gay marriage legalization with the legalization of beastial marriage. That is the impact of western feminism on the dialogue outside of the western bubble - the absurd and unfortunate cliff of a slippery slope argument gone real.
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  5. #1365
    typology curator Xann's Avatar
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  6. #1366
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
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    Is there any way to help women in the Democratic Republic of the Congo? Because the sexual violence against women there is appalling. Girls as young as eighteen months are being raped and mutilated. THAT'S the sort of thing that the rest of the world shouldn't be turning a blind eye to.
    WOOP WOOP WOOP
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  7. #1367
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    Is there any way to help women in the Democratic Republic of the Congo? Because the sexual violence against women there is appalling. Girls as young as eighteen months are being raped and mutilated. THAT'S the sort of thing that the rest of the world shouldn't be turning a blind eye to.
    This is one of the things that should be obvious, but it turns out that it's an overall invisible effect.

    What's invisible? The fact that living in a Western society with advanced technology and rule of law - never mind women's rights enshrined in law. We forget how much time and work went into creating all of this that we take for granted. Drop the rule of law, or drop the technology, and women are back to being subjugated and abused. To help the Congo, or any country that sees this kind of abuse, you'd have to install what we call "Western society." But aside from being dismissed as "imperialistic", such an idea is extremely difficult to execute. Culture is endemic to the people that live in it. You can change it, slowly, but you don't easily get rid of the culture that was there. Similar dynamics prevent feeding the hungry of such places.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #1368
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    ....Hire products from companies producing in or importing from the Congo while prioritizing those that meet fair labor qualifications when those become available.

  9. #1369
    The Senate Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    ....Hire products from companies producing in or importing from the Congo while prioritizing those that meet fair labor qualifications when those become available.
    I dare say dear boy, what are you babbling about?
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  10. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    I dare say dear boy, what are you babbling about?
    Or... Just get them to change their name.

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