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  1. #1231
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    True joint custody (child spends ~50% of time with father) or sole custody are difficult for a father with a typical full-time work schedule. Moreso if he must travel or put in much overtime. In any case, it appears that most custody cases are settled by mutual agreement of the divorcing couple, rather than by a decision of the court. Even if courts still are biased in favor of mothers, this will affect a small portion of divorces:
    What I meant is that men are no less invested in the lives of their children than women.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
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  2. #1232
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What I meant is that men are no less invested in the lives of their children than women.
    Historically that investment has taken a much different form for men than for women, hence the statistics on custody arrangements. This is one area where gender bias shortchanges men (and their kids).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #1233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    This:

    He complains about such trivial crap my perspective is that at least Mras are fighting for some balance in this feminist soxiety.

  4. #1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Historically that investment has taken a much different form for men than for women, hence the statistics on custody arrangements. This is one area where gender bias shortchanges men (and their kids).
    Historicslly men never had to pay for child support either Today men are still expected to pay for child support and support their child. Women and feminists want to be independant and have the right to their kids and their bodies but still expect the government to enfore laws which enable them to do so at the expense of men.

  5. #1235
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    He complains about such trivial crap my perspective is that at least Mras are fighting for some balance in this feminist soxiety.
    His main complaint is that they aren't fighting for anything - they are arguing against feminism in various forms - but aren't actually campaigning politically for anything, since between progressive MRAs, traditionalists, and a bunch of other factions, they might be able to agree that they are against feminism but they can't get to agree on what they actually want done. If that is true, and it seems it might be, then it isn't trivial at all. The whole point of having a man's rights movement is to have someone actually trying to create change, fighting against gender biased shelters, unfair divorce laws, gender quotas in university classes, unequal jail time and punishment under the law, female-only scholarships, etc. A man's right association that isn't doing that in practice is taking up political space that needs to be filled by something else, and is generally one big waste of oxygen.

  6. #1236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    His main complaint is that they aren't fighting for anything - they are arguing against feminism in various forms - but aren't actually campaigning politically for anything, since between progressive MRAs, traditionalists, and a bunch of other factions, they might be able to agree that they are against feminism but they can't get to agree on what they actually want done. If that is true, and it seems it might be, then it isn't trivial at all. The whole point of having a man's rights movement is to have someone actually trying to create change, fighting against gender biased shelters, unfair divorce laws, gender quotas in university classes, unequal jail time and punishment under the law, female-only scholarships, etc. A man's right association that isn't doing that in practice is taking up political space that needs to be filled by something else, and is generally one big waste of oxygen.
    I don't think you understand the backlash the MRA's receive many people in the men's rights communities are shamed and ridiculed for the position they hold. How can a group actively fight for inequality when no one takes any of their claims seriously.

  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I don't think you understand the backlash the MRA's receive many people in the men's rights communities are shamed and ridiculed for the position they hold. How can a group actively fight for inequality when no one takes any of their claims seriously.
    If there was a history of failed attempts at fighting for change, you might have a point, but they would have at least tried. As of right now, they aren't failing because they aren't actually trying. Getting ridiculed by opposition is something every group has to face, and is mostly besides the point.

  8. #1238
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If more men sought and were granted primary or joint custody of children, more men would have this trouble as well. As for financial support, you are right that dads sometimes fail to pay their share, and whether through lax enforcement or simple desire to preserve a relationship for their children, moms are left to do their best on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Men do seek it, we just aren't granted it.
    A friend of mine was granted full custody of the children. Money wasn't a problem. A man can easily get full custody when a mother is so self-involved she is pronounced unfit by a judge.

  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    If there was a history of failed attempts at fighting for change, you might have a point, but they would have at least tried. As of right now, they aren't failing because they aren't actually trying. Getting ridiculed by opposition is something every group has to face, and is mostly besides the point.
    There probably is a history of failed attempts, I don't really follow the MRA community all that much. I also think the reason why MRA's are fighting feminism is because people's ideas that women are oppressed are far too ingrained in them.

  10. #1240
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    This is great.

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