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  1. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    No, it isn't a competition. This is about family.
    Yes it is. Occupation affects family relations.

  2. #1142
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    But why does a family have to split up the work why can't each member stick to a role? why is this such a huge problem? If a women decides to stay at home while a man works why do you see this as problem if that's what works for them? but when we switch the roles of a man staying at home it isn't a problem then is it if that's the choice they want to make.
    I think you misunderstood me- if that's how they want to split up the work (man makes the money, woman keeps the house/children) then that's fine. That's a way to split up the work. They are both working, even if they're not both getting paid. I don't understand why you think I think that's a problem, considering I did it myself when my kids were small, as I've said over and over and over again.

    Edited to add: imagine there's a series of slider bars representing the work it takes to run a family- housework, childcare, home maintenance, resource-gathering (money). According to current gender roles the slider bars are all the way to the left on housework and childcare for women, and all the way to the left for home maintenance and resource gathering for men. There's nothing inherently wrong with that arrangement, but it may not meet the needs of the individuals in a given family. I just think families should be free to keep things that way or not, and move the slider bars in whatever way works for them. Most people I know DO adjust the slider bars based on the individual preferences of the people involved. Things are changing for the better in this regard.

  3. #1143
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Yes it is. Occupation affects family relations.
    That's logistics, not competition.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I can't really participate in this thread any more. I understand what's going on, this is basically a fight for the future and we're winning. :P In honor of my bowing out, I will go to the bar this evening, order a drink with umbrella in it and hit on an androgynous woman.
    You haven't really participated in this thread though.

  5. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think you misunderstood me- if that's how they want to split up the work (man makes the money, woman keeps the house/children) then that's fine. That's a way to split up the work. They are both working, even if they're not both getting paid. I don't understand why you think I think that's a problem, considering I did it myself when my kids were small, as I've said over and over and over again.
    Because feminists usually shame women for choosing to stay at home and take care of the kids and I don't think a man working while a female staying at home is a problem if that's their choice.

  6. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    You will no doubt feel compelled to get in the last word, and you are free to do so. I leave you to it.


    No, I don't feel compelled to get in the last word. I am the type of person that likes discussions to continue on (with or without me).

    But that's funny that you think that.

  7. #1147
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Because feminists usually shame women for choosing to stay at home and take care of the kids and I don't think a man working while a female staying at home is a problem if that's their choice.
    I don't think it's the case that feminists "usually" do that. It happens but IME it's not the norm. On your last statement, we agree. We DID choose for me to stay at home and take care of my kids while my husband worked, for a time, because it was the best use of the family resources (at that time I didn't have an employment option that would have paid me more than childcare would have cost). And I loved it. My husband didn't love it as much, and after a time I missed being a part of the adult world, so we adjusted and I pursued more employment so he could spend more time with our kids. That's called being in a partnership.
    Likes Lethe liked this post

  8. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think it's the case that feminists "usually" do that. It happens but IME it's not the norm. On your last statement, we agree. We DID choose for me to stay at home and take care of my kids while my husband worked, for a time, because it was the best use of the family resources (at that time I didn't have an employment option that would have paid me more than childcare would have cost). And I loved it. My husband didn't love it as much, and after a time I missed being a part of the adult world, so we adjusted and I pursued more employment so he could spend more time with our kids. That's called being in a partnership.
    A partnership can mean any type of collaboration between two people, that's called switching roles.

  9. #1149
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    A partnership can mean any type of collaboration between two people, that's called switching roles.
    "Switching roles" would be if he quit his job to stay home with them all the time and I started working long hours away from home to support us all. Neither of those things happened. We just both moved closer to the middle on both housework/childcare and money-making.

  10. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    "Switching roles" would be if he quit his job to stay home with them all the time and I started working long hours away from home to support us all. Neither of those things happened. We just both moved closer to the middle on both housework/childcare and money-making.
    Ok so you've compromised your individual roles. Also I do infect think that most feminists are against a women's choice to stay at home and take care of children, the women I know who do this are constantly shamed by feminists.

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