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Thread: 3rd wave feminism

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    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Statistically most women vote democrat who makes up 52% of the total population. Jobs in the military have much lower standards for women than for men in order to be accepted, also jobs in policing and firefighting.
    Don't blame on women the fact that organizations run mainly by men maintain double standards. As for voting, about the same percentage of men and women identify as republican. The bigger difference is in democrats vs. independents. Individual races can go either way, depending on the candidate, the issues, and even the locale.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 04-23-2015 at 10:09 PM. Reason: fixed misplaced quote
    In science, when human behavior enters the equation, things go nonlinear. That's why Physics is easy and Sociology is hard. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    What would the 4th wave of feminism be?
    There's not much of a point in trying to define it, because there was no actually logical framework behind how the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were labeled and as such nothing to predict what a 4th looks like. They are just sort of convenient labels that have been slapped on. I'm of the opinion that there are much better grounds for asserting a difference between the 1st and 2nd wave than the 2nd and 3rd, and that the 3rd by just be the transformed latter end of the 2nd wave. But it's this funny thing, when someone happens the first time no one thinks of it as being part of a set, so no one calls it number 1 or the first of X. But when something very similar happens a second time, people call it the second X, the first one is retroactively called the first of X, and now with a set being established, from that point on people are constantly looking for the third of X and are overly eager to apply the label.
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  3. #1053
    He pronks, too! Array Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    This article is enlightening to this thread, in fact it's a more lucid parallel of it, where upon Angela Washko, a 'Third Wave Feminist' interviews Roosh V, a supposedly well known PUA as part of an art project that ended up stalling out:

    A Monopoly On Logic: A Feminist Artist Interviews The Internet's Most Infamous Misogynist - ANIMAL



    Why the project has not proceeded:

    What Happens When a Feminist Artist Interviews a Pickup Artist
    That incidentally reminds me of an interesting article I read months back that I almost made a thread about:
    The internet is full of men who hate feminism. Here's what they're like in person.

    So much seems both true and relevant that I wouldn't know what to highlight.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Don't blame on women the fact that organizations run mainly by men maintain double standards.
    You mean the double standard of the women majority choosing to not become employed in positions of higher power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As for voting, about the same percentage of men and women identify as republican. The bigger difference is in democrats vs. independents. Individual races can go either way, depending on the candidate, the issues, and even the locale.
    More bullshit.

    "In 1996 Bill Clinton raked in 11 percentage points more women than men, 54% of all women and 43% of all men voted for Clinton. The only other president to get a higher women vote was Barack Obama with 56%.[4] This gap has serious significance. Bill Clinton won with 49.2% of the popular vote or 47 million votes. Fifty-four percent of all women voters voted for Bill Clinton. While men were split 43% Clinton, 44% Dole and 10% Perot. The Clinton – Dole divide was insignificant among men, only 1 percentage point. However among women that gap is 54% of women voting for Clinton to 38% of women voting for Dole. In terms of votes that is 11 million votes. Bill Clinton defeated Bob Dole with just over 8 million votes."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That incidentally reminds me of an interesting article I read months back that I almost made a thread about:
    The internet is full of men who hate feminism. Here's what they're like in person.

    So much seems both true and relevant that I wouldn't know what to highlight.
    Thank you - this was very telling - and a fascinating read.

    I will attest - the author truly takes you on a very intimate journey through a skewed mind. Thinking that someone is detached from reality is easy, a fact that gets demonstrated as well, but rarely do you get the occasion to actually see the process of detachment unfolding, to understand enthusiasm of disengagement for the opportunity it provides, to hear the pause in the sensory faculties, to see the length a mind like that goes too just to construct a web of presumptions with which one can re-frame and disarming a potential threat to one's view from meaning or significance, the process with which one takes on a character and deflates it into a more comfortable box, and to even hear someone not simply demonstrating it but outright attesting to confirmation bias in all but it's name.

    In a way, he does exactly what he intends, opening a window to a foreign mind, getting to know someone you might otherwise disagree on a more intimate and personal level. It's a morbid fascination I guess, maybe for the same reason one might enjoy the expositions of House Of Card, almost the same if one is open to replace the questions of empathy with the question of reality, and tolerate the unfortunate replacement of a character portrayed by Kevin Spacey with a real human being portrayed by himself.

    It's just not any of the minds he intended to do it too.

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    Post Human Post Array Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That incidentally reminds me of an interesting article I read months back that I almost made a thread about:
    The internet is full of men who hate feminism. Here's what they're like in person.

    So much seems both true and relevant that I wouldn't know what to highlight.
    Thanks for sharing. This actually makes me sad for all these doods. They obviously need something. I've always wondered why this point of view isn't even a little appealing to me. It's something worth thinking about.

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    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    You mean the double standard of the women majority choosing to not become employed in positions of higher power?
    No I don't mean that. That is the fantasy of your own misguided/misinformed opinion, not reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    "In 1996 Bill Clinton raked in 11 percentage points more women than men, 54% of all women and 43% of all men voted for Clinton. The only other president to get a higher women vote was Barack Obama with 56%.[4] This gap has serious significance. Bill Clinton won with 49.2% of the popular vote or 47 million votes. Fifty-four percent of all women voters voted for Bill Clinton. While men were split 43% Clinton, 44% Dole and 10% Perot. The Clinton – Dole divide was insignificant among men, only 1 percentage point. However among women that gap is 54% of women voting for Clinton to 38% of women voting for Dole. In terms of votes that is 11 million votes. Bill Clinton defeated Bob Dole with just over 8 million votes."
    Again, you are trying to generalize from one example: here, the election of Bill Clinton. We can probably agree that he was exceptional, though not always in the best ways. Besides, I'm not sure what the demographics of voting blocks has to do with feminism/ending gender bias. I suspect Clinton won a healthy majority of Black votes as well. Should this lead us to the conclusion that Blacks are more likely to land in jail than in leadership positions because they don't choose to pursue positions of power? Perhaps they are better off being protected and supported by whites; on their own, they just end up "living off the government", as you put it.
    In science, when human behavior enters the equation, things go nonlinear. That's why Physics is easy and Sociology is hard. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No I don't mean that. That is the fantasy of your own misguided/misinformed opinion, not reality.
    Nope women genuinely choose to not work in higher positions of power and then feminists bitch about a gender wage gap when all they take in school is liberal studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Again, you are trying to generalize from one example: here, the election of Bill Clinton. We can probably agree that he was exceptional, though not always in the best ways. Besides, I'm not sure what the demographics of voting blocks has to do with feminism/ending gender bias. I suspect Clinton won a healthy majority of Black votes as well. Should this lead us to the conclusion that Blacks are more likely to land in jail than in leadership positions because they don't choose to pursue positions of power? Perhaps they are better off being protected and supported by whites; on their own, they just end up "living off the government", as you put it.
    How many pools of elections can we choose from? there are limited amount of presidential electives in recent time and it was both bill Clinton and Barack Obama who had the majority of female votes who are in fact the majority of the population 52%. No blacks are quite different and there are several reasons why they don't acquire higher positions of power. From my understanding this group of people are exploited and favored by the government and large corporations for jobs that require minimum wage or general low paid labor positions.

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    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    That was pretty much my position prior to the thread:
    If we agree that both genders have problems they suffer from gender discrimination in their own ways, and we agree that feminism is fundamentally about women and is representing only one side of the equation, then in turn we need representation and organizations on both ends. That means we need to let organizations like NOW and the MRA bicker it out and hope they each win on the "right issues" - The ones that positively impact their own gender - while minimizing damages to the agendas of the opposite gender (Because yes, their narratives conflict pretty often). While it's often an ugly argument with a lot of comparative morality, I considered it a necessary evil.
    I think if the more hot-headed people in both camps would calm down and focus on results, they would realize that their agendas have much in common. Take the MRA complaint that women are given preference in child custody when couples divorce. First of all, any man who thinks child care is primarily a woman's responsibility should be fine with this. The fact that they are not suggests that they really do agree that child rearing should be shared by both parents. (Or, they view children as possessions, are controlling, are trying to use them as pawns in the divorce proceedings to get back at their wife; but let's assume the best for now.) There are also issues on the feminist side concerning greater flexibility in work schedules, family leave, etc. To the extent that feminists present these as "women's issues", they are again buying into the notion that family responsibilities rest primarily on women's shoulders. Because that has been a reality that only recently is changing, women have been the ones to raise the issue. The benefits, though, should and increasingly are available to men as well.
    In science, when human behavior enters the equation, things go nonlinear. That's why Physics is easy and Sociology is hard. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
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    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Nope women genuinely choose to not work in higher positions of power and then feminists bitch about a gender wage gap when all they take in school is liberal studies.
    Some women choose not to seek these positions, just like some men. The fact remains that those women who do seek them have a much more difficult time getting hired, and much more resistance once on the job. This can be quite a deterrent. Fortunately things are changing, and progress should build on itself as young women starting out have more role models and examples. You are right about one thing, though: women have to play to win. It may take another generation or more before the majority of young women entering the workforce were not raised to rely on a husband to support them. My generation certainly wasn't. Some of us saw through that right away. Others believed in the fairy tale only to have a rude awakening years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    How many pools of elections can we choose from? there are limited amount of presidential electives in recent time and it was both bill Clinton and Barack Obama who had the majority of female votes who are in fact the majority of the population 52%. No blacks are quite different and there are several reasons why they don't acquire higher positions of power. From my understanding this group of people are exploited and favored by the government and large corporations for jobs that require minimum wage or general low paid labor positions.
    I don't know whether I should be relieved or disappointed that women are not the only demographic group about whom you have a skewed and unsupportable opinion. In any case, you still have not demonstrated the relevance of this line of thought.
    In science, when human behavior enters the equation, things go nonlinear. That's why Physics is easy and Sociology is hard. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
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