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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    People often gripe about the issue of adoption by same sex couples; detailing how missing out on a father/mother figure will mess the child up, using problems with single parent upbringings to try to prove it. No one seems to consider whether missing out on the balance that comes with two parental figures (regardless of sex) and/or having a parent who abandoned you, might be the thing that is screwing people up. It could have nothing to do with the gender of the people raising you.
    I work for social services and I've seen the full spectrum of child care arrangements imaginable pretty much, there is great variety and diversity and every child for a healthy development needs at least one attachment figure.

    In my own upbringing I can think of a complete pantheon of figures, aunts, uncles, friends of family, cousins, neighbour friends and the like but I also had a father and a mother. It's not a gripe with anything that I would want to give my own children the advantage and benefits of an upbringing like my own. I would not choose to deprive them of it if I'm capable of providing it to them. When it comes to child care it is the paramountcy of the child's welfare that is at stake, other considerations, in particular the needs of the parents themselves, should be a distant second.

    I certainly would not suggest that any ideological experiment or cultural experiment by adults should over ride that, now, I dont believe that PC views about same sex couples and how normative people wish that to be or to become, its curious to me that so many heterosexual people would want it to be so but none the less its the reality, is on a par with some of the experiments in collectivisation by Chinese cultural revolutionaries or Romanian communists in the past but I'd respect anyone who has been raised a particular way, found it worked out for them and plans to do just that themselves.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I pretty much don't believe that there is anything uniquely and intrinsically valuable about a parent of one sex or the other, so that terminates the article for me.

    It looks as though, for some reason, some reason that might very well have nothing to do with any aspect of her parents, she became emotionally vulnerable, and some devout Christian strands preyed on that vulnerability in the fashion they are so good at.

    Sometimes completely mundane Jewish people have kids who wind up getting into Neo-Nazism. Influencing your children's development is hard. Crazy, ironic, stuff happens.
    Well I dont know the situation but I see this a lot, people rush to find confirmation for their prejudices were they can, its obviously those meddling brain washing christians up to their old tricks, that sort of thing.

    What I cant understand is that what would appear an obvious political ploy or prejudice when its articulated by some other quarter doesnt seem the same or as stupid when its your own partisan position?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I knew this would eventually come into the picture:

    The South Carolina woman’s change of stance on same-sex marriage occurred after she came to terms with what she deems the “father wound” and started going to church with her husband.
    During an interview with World, a Christian publication, Heather Barwick said, “It really wasn’t until I came to Christ that I felt that burden lifted off of me. And I’m not bitter. I’m not angry. I forgive my dad.”
    Kumbaya.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    If thats her argument she should oppose all single parent s too.
    That. I can think of very few arguments around this subject that couldn't also be applied to single parents -- often even more so.

    Single-parenting is pretty hard work for any person -- even at the level of providing basic needs. Having someone else around who gives a damn is almost always going to be a stress relief, which of course would rub off on the kid in terms of life satisfaction and growth and so on.

    Forget even about marriage. Take it more generally. What about a single parent, say, enlisting the help of a nanny of the same gender?
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  5. #25
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What I can't understand is that what would appear an obvious political ploy or prejudice when its articulated by some other quarter doesn't seem the same or as stupid when its your own partisan position?
    ^ This. I find it absurd that this woman's experience as a child raised by a same-sex couple is being so resentfully discarded. I haven't had that experience, have you? Regardless of the topic at hand, it is extremely ignorant and self-deceptive to only receive information that agrees with one's own opinions. If we ever truly decide to know what's true, good and right, we'd best begin by allowing ourselves to hear the perspectives of all sides (and actually consider them).

    And really, all of this Christian disgruntlement is just as hurtfully stereotypical as any prejudice-- is it okay to have a bad experience with someone of any other people group (religious, cultural, social or otherwise), and write the entire thing off entirely? There are jerks and great people in every camp, culture and belief, let's not forget that.
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  6. #26
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    She's totally free to share her experience, although realistically there have always been people with experiences on both sides (e.g., she's not unique); it's not like she should be being made into some kind of unique political statement, which is what happened immediately.

    Unfortunately, once you put your public story out there regardless of who you are, it's public and people are going to dissect it. The media shoved her on top a really tall pedestal, to be both a beacon and a target. The politics in general on both sides are getting old.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    It seems she was clearly cherry picked by this religious publication to make their point. Her daddy issues have nothing to do with gay marriage. You don't think there are millions of children in single mother families that face the same thing? And it's probably worse for them since they only have one income earner in the household. I don't doubt 2 parents of opposite gender in a healthy relationship is optimal. However, in this case her mother was going to leave her father regardless of the legality of gay marriage (she was gay, she didn't love him). She admits her father wasn't a great guy. He could have been involved in her life after they had split up if he had chose to be.

    I note she herself is not gay (don't the fundies argue gayness is a choice and that one of the major concerns with same sex marriages is that it will result in children choosing to be gay)? This story doesn't fit that part of their agenda though, so it isn't mentioned.

  8. #28
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    I have to wonder if these people have a concept or definition of what good looks like in a child. Do they go up to small children without the things they define and yell "failure!" at them?

    Man they must spend a lot of time yelling at each other. Oh, right, they've found the cure. How lucky.
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    It seems she was clearly cherry picked by this religious publication to make their point. Her daddy issues have nothing to do with gay marriage. You don't think there are millions of children in single mother families that face the same thing? And it's probably worse for them since they only have one income earner in the household. I don't doubt 2 parents of opposite gender in a healthy relationship is optimal. However, in this case her mother was going to leave her father regardless of the legality of gay marriage (she was gay, she didn't love him). She admits her father wasn't a great guy. He could have been involved in her life after they had split up if he had chose to be.

    I note she herself is not gay (don't the fundies argue gayness is a choice and that one of the major concerns with same sex marriages is that it will result in children choosing to be gay)? This story doesn't fit that part of their agenda though, so it isn't mentioned.
    Just as it was cherry picked for this forum to make points about the, er, "fundies" did you call them?

    You guys are all a crazy mirror image of what you imagine you are out to oppose.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    I find it absurd that this woman's experience as a child raised by a same-sex couple is being so resentfully discarded.
    This woman is a pawn in someone else's game, being used as an argument which is essentially meant to say: Look, a person who grew up in a same-sex marriage (which she did not) opposes this (terrible, unhealthy) institution because it is wrong, wrong, wrong and always bad for children! Her experience is discarded because it does not support the argument it is supposed to make. Nothing more. The fact that she supposedly missed her uncaring father has nothing to do with having had two loving mothers, nor anything with gay marriage, which was not even a thing when she grew up. So why should her experience count for anything more than Lark's or, better yet, the countless studies showing that children raised by loving gay parents do well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I certainly would not suggest that any ideological experiment or cultural experiment by adults should over ride that, now, I dont believe that PC views about same sex couples and how normative people wish that to be or to become, its curious to me that so many heterosexual people would want it to be so but none the less its the reality, is on a par with some of the experiments in collectivisation by Chinese cultural revolutionaries or Romanian communists in the past but I'd respect anyone who has been raised a particular way, found it worked out for them and plans to do just that themselves.
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