User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 54

  1. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I hardly think that was, or is, the norm at public schools. Most public school teachers aren't political enough to push politics. They tend to be B students at second and third rate colleges. I guess I could see the occasional teacher pushing it, but not by that much more of a margin than the average office worker pushing it - which is to say, extremely fringe.
    I agree with you that at the moment there are far more bible thumping right-wing type indoctrination going on. But I do believe that the socialist mentality is quite prevalent as well. That is a left-wing form of indoctrination, but it exists with more subtle forces at play.

    Consider what socialism in America means:
    Source:Democratic Socialists of America
    Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.
    Note the implicit/explicit assumptions:
    (1) profit making is available on to the few
    (2) this profit making is at odds with the public needs
    (3) the existence of the "ordinary American"
    (4) "Ordinary Americans" cannot participate in many of the decisions that affect their lives without radical transformation of the government and economy.

    My claim is:
    In public schools, those above 4 attitudes are conveyed to the children through words and actions of their teachers.

    This in essence leads to the Tall Poppy Syndrome. Instead, of each person attempting to make the best of themselves, based on what they have, we create a mind-set of entitlement--that the government and economy needs to fill our needs, because after all we are "only ordinary."

    I will did up sources for proof if I get time, right now, I have to run.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    481

    Default

    And I hate this entitlement mentality. You may be entitled to something, but that something should not be the responsibility of anyone but you.

    Marcus Goldman was the son of a teacher and a peasant. He ran a little business working out of a cramped basement next to a very bad building in New York.

    Guess which company's named after the son of a poor peasant and teacher?

    Ordinary incapable Americans my ass.

    Fat, lazy Americans?

    Yes.

    This is America. Get up, get out, and do your legwork. You work 40 hours a week? There are 168 hours in a week. Want to make something of yourself? Learn from the people that went and did before you. Don't listen to the losers that say you can't change the system. Work for the best, gain knowledge, and make something of yourself.

    This is America. This is the land of OPPORTUNITY, not the land of HANDOUTS. Note that the word opportunity means you have to go and do it yourself. Nobody's going to give you anything, because they'll take it for themselves first, and give you the scraps. You have to take it.

    And don't whine when you don't get it the first time around. If you don't persevere, we don't want you at the top with us.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  3. #33
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    meanlittlechimp, the death toll figures for the Second Congo War are still higher than any conflicts in which the United States has been involved. That is a fact, and you didn't even address that. Also, you are adding casualties to the toll wreaked by the United States in which they did not even pull the trigger. It's disingenuous and wrong and you really do not have a leg to stand on. I'd love to see your estimates of the number of non-citizens killed directly or indirectly by the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia. . . You know, it was only a couple of million. Gotta break some eggs for omelettes and all that. And 20,000,000 dead Soviets OBVIOUSLY doesn't count. Way to be selectively moralistic.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Yes they are. You don't know what socialism means. Just because they engage in international trade with a frenzy, doesn't mean their aren't socialist. Free trade has nothing to do with being socialist or capitalist. It's the degree to which their economy is influenced or controlled by the state. China had over half the world's GNP in the 18th century and they weren't capitalist then either.
    I couldn't let this one go. YOU are the one who doesn't know what socialism means. Here are three dictionary definitions:

    1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
    2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
    3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.



    That is NOT what they have in Scandinavia. Government spending accounts for a large portion of GDP, but it is concentrated in generous social services, with corporations and small businesses providing manufacturing, financial services, etc. Here is an excerpt about Sweden's economy from Index of Freedom on The Heritage Foundation website (they are a center-right, economically conservative think tank, not predisposed to be kind to social democracy).

    "Sweden enjoys exceptionally high levels of investment freedom, financial freedom, property rights, business freedom, and freedom from corruption. Virtually all commercial operations are simple and transparent. Foreign investment is permitted without government approval, though capital is subject to restrictions in some areas. The financial sector is highly developed, and the Stockholm stock market is open to foreign investment. The judiciary, independent of politics and free of corruption, has an exemplary ability to protect property rights.

    In contrast, Sweden has some of the lowest scores worldwide in fiscal freedom and government size. The top income tax rate of 60 percent is one of the highest in the world, and total government spending equals more than half of GDP. The labor market was highly regulated, but reforms have led to a score equal to the world average in labor freedom."


    There is a major difference between having an extensive welfare state and operating under socialism. Like, say, the difference between Sweden and Cuba.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #35
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I couldn't let this one go. YOU are the one who doesn't know what socialism means. Here are three dictionary definitions:

    1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
    2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
    3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.



    That is NOT what they have in Scandinavia. Government spending accounts for a large portion of GDP, but it is concentrated in generous social services, with corporations and small businesses providing manufacturing, financial services, etc. Here is an excerpt about Sweden's economy from Index of Freedom on The Heritage Foundation website (they are a center-right, economically conservative think tank, not predisposed to be kind to social democracy).

    "Sweden enjoys exceptionally high levels of investment freedom, financial freedom, property rights, business freedom, and freedom from corruption. Virtually all commercial operations are simple and transparent. Foreign investment is permitted without government approval, though capital is subject to restrictions in some areas. The financial sector is highly developed, and the Stockholm stock market is open to foreign investment. The judiciary, independent of politics and free of corruption, has an exemplary ability to protect property rights.

    In contrast, Sweden has some of the lowest scores worldwide in fiscal freedom and government size. The top income tax rate of 60 percent is one of the highest in the world, and total government spending equals more than half of GDP. The labor market was highly regulated, but reforms have led to a score equal to the world average in labor freedom."


    There is a major difference between having an extensive welfare state and operating under socialism. Like, say, the difference between Sweden and Cuba.
    Economic freedom in America and Sweden is almost identical. And this is according to the Heritage Foundation!

    NationMaster - Economic freedom (most recent) by country

    But I agree that Scandinavia isn't socialist, they are social democracies.

  6. #36
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Economic freedom in America and Sweden is almost identical. And this is according to the Heritage Foundation!

    NationMaster - Economic freedom (most recent) by country

    Yes, I was quoting the Index of Economic Freedom, which they do with The Wall Street Journal. Not exactly left-wing hotbeds. Iceland, in particular is a tremendous economy. If they ditched their rule about only residents owning land, they'd have to be at least equal to the U.S. in economic freedom. Personally, I think it's an embarrassment that the U.S. is not #1, or at the very least #3 behind Hong Kong and Singapore. Our corporate tax rate is out of control, and we still have too many damn corporate and agricultural subsidies.

    But I agree that Scandinavia isn't socialist, they are social democracies.
    I have a problem with someone calling me out to say that I don't know what socialism means, when they are using it in the wrong context. Someone can agree with me or not, but at least acknowledge that I know what I am writing about.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #37
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Personally, I think it's an embarrassment that the U.S. is not #1, or at the very least #3 behind Hong Kong and Singapore. Our corporate tax rate is out of control, and we still have too many damn corporate and agricultural subsidies.
    I'd agree with ya...if economic freedom equaled overall freedom. Too bad it's not that simple.

  8. #38
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'd agree with ya...if economic freedom equaled overall freedom. Too bad it's not that simple.
    They don't equate entirely, but there is a correlation. Wealthy, relatively economically free countries are far more stable and are better on civil rights than are unfree countries. The examples are myriad. I hope that the Chinese people begin to assert their political freedom as their wealth increases. History would suggest that they will, but it will be a messy process.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #39

    Default

    Interesting, on that list Denmark is right behind the U.S.

    As for what "economic freedom" means (with regard to that list),
    Index of Economic Freedom

    I actually learned something here.

    Index of Economic Freedom -Rankings

    The countries at the top:
    Hong Kong 1 [90.3]
    Singapore 2 [87.4]
    Ireland 3 [82.4]
    Australia 4 [82.0]
    United States 5 [80.6]
    New Zealand 6 [80.2]
    Canada 7 [80.2]
    The countries at the bottom:
    Iran 151 [44.0]
    Turkmenistan 152 [43.4]
    Burma 153 [39.5]
    Libya 154 [38.7]
    Zimbabwe 155 [29.8]
    Cuba 156 [27.5]
    Korea, North 157 [3.0]
    Says something to me at least.

    EDIT: In the interest of full disclosure, here is the heritage foundations main site:
    The Heritage Foundation

    We could use an alternate index put out by the Fraiser Institute.
    Main website: The Fraser Institute
    Who they are

    Source on economic freedom:
    Economic Freedom of the World: 2007 Annual Report


    Top countries:
    Hong Kong 8.9 1
    Singapore 8.8 2
    New Zealand 8.5 3
    Switzerland 8.3 4
    United Kingdom 8.1 5
    United States 8.1 5
    Canada 8.1 5
    Estonia 8.0 8
    Ireland 7.9 9

    Bottom Countries:
    Niger 5.1 131
    Togo 5.1 131
    Burundi 5.0 134
    Venezuela 4.9 135
    Central Afr. Rep. 4.6 136
    Congo, Rep. Of 4.3 137
    Angola 4.2 138
    Congo, Dem. R. 4.0 139
    Myanmar 3.8 140
    Zimbabwe 2.9 141

    Unfortunately, both institutes have clear agendas that cast doubt on them. But, the lists and methods for creating these lists seem reasonable.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #40
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    They don't equate entirely, but there is a correlation.
    Oh definitely, a strong correlation.

Similar Threads

  1. The Great Global Warming Swindle
    By reason in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-08-2015, 12:04 PM
  2. Global Warming, Man made or Naturally caused (And other earth questions)
    By Didums in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 08-14-2008, 11:29 PM
  3. Global warming
    By Nocapszy in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 04-09-2008, 11:18 AM
  4. [MBTItm] Can you move from J to P?
    By Cindyrella in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 10:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO