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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    This post is one gigantic FAIL. Pretty much nothing you say here is true.
    Which parts exactly? our trade deficit? the fact the US has several socialist policies? The fact the IMF and the World Bank has not actually developed anyone they tried to help? The fact the US has killed far more non citizens since anyone since WWII? That there isn't such a thing as pure socialism or capitalism? That communism wasn't the boogeyman before terrorism?

    What exactly is the outlandish part of my post?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I have my doubts about the accuracy of your figures. I think they're drastically inflated.
    Of course the human race is violent. It's just funny when people ascribe socialism/communism and terrorism as the primary culprits for this violence. Especially since the majority of them are so little aware of even their own government actions, against the other peoples' around the globe.

    I think the numbers were actually low. Here is how I estimated them.

    Asia:
    Vietnam: 3-4 million dead
    Cambodia: 700K 1.2 million dead (millions more if you include the fact Pol Pot would not have risen to power before US bombing) and the overthrow of Sinohoek because he wouldnt help the US invade Vietnam.
    Laos: 400 - 800K dead
    Indonesia: Installed Suharto kills 500K to 1 million trying to resist US backed puppet state
    E. Timor: 200,000 dead;After oil is discovered we use our puppet Suharto to invade so we can gank their oil supplies
    Korea: I forget the numbers, you can look it up.

    McNamara himself stated 3.4 million died in IndoChina (he was only referring to the US bombing of Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos, which he personally oversaw). There are also another 500 to 1000 deaths every month TODAY, from the land mines we left there.

    Latin America
    Nicaragua: 50,000 dead
    El Salvador: 50,000 to 100,000 dead
    Panama: 5,000 - 20,000 dead
    Honduras: thousands of leftist dissidents are murdered, via the SOA and their mercenaries
    Guatemala: After the overthrow of democratically elected Arbenz, we killed over 100,000 during the next 40 years via the right wing puppet governments we install.
    Haiti: US installed Duvailer regime kills over 100,000
    Dominican Republic: overthrows democratically elected Juan Bosch, install right wing junta thousands die
    Bolivia: US overthrows Torres and installs right wing dictator, Banzer, who murders thousands in the process.
    Chile: thousands killed after and the installation of Pinochet after overthrowing Allende
    Grenada: 1 to 2,000 dead
    Columbia:
    70,000 to 150,000 dead
    Cuba: numerous assassination and destabilization programs. Vicious trade embargo crippling their economy.
    (Achieve the highest literacy rates, lowest infant mortality rates, and many other societal measurements that FAR surpass any latin american country who's government we install or consider a "US ally" WITH the benefit of US financial and military aid.)


    Middle East:
    Iran: thousands dead under the brutal Shah regime we installed, after overthrowing their previous democracy
    Afghanistan/Iraq:
    800,000 deaths, 1.5 million injured

    The above does not include the Iran/Iraq war which we funded and instigated claiming millions more lives

    Africa
    Angola: Kissinger tries to install US puppet Savimbi 300,000 deaths in this failed attempt
    Congo: after we assassinate democratically elected Lumumba thousands die as a result.
    The US installs Mobutu and he kills tens of thousands to maintain power.

    There's probably another 500K to one million, I can't recall now.
    Last edited by meanlittlechimp; 08-21-2008 at 02:03 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I like your methodology. While you're at it, you might as well count all the people the Chinese have killed because China might not be what it is today without the Japanese invasion in WWII, and Japan would not have become a military power if it was not for the US forcing Japan to open its ports.

    Sorry, but I still think those numbers are BS. Take Vietnam for instance. The US did not start that war. They basically took over for the French. China and the USSR are/were equally responsible for those deaths.

    I understand the source of your position, though. Read my signature.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I like your methodology. While you're at it, you might as well count all the people the Chinese have killed because China might not be what it is today without the Japanese invasion in WWII, and Japan would not have become a military power if it was not for the US forcing Japan to open its ports.

    Sorry, but I still think those numbers are BS. Take Vietnam for instance. The US did not start that war. They basically took over for the French. China and the USSR are/were equally responsible for those deaths.

    I understand the source of your position, though. Read my signature.
    Ho Chi Minh would have had 90% of the popular vote in a free election. We set up a puppet government under Diem, and dropped more bombs on civilians than all the bombs dropped in WWII, and we didn't start the war? We don't like what leaders they elect so we carpet bomb their entire country to put in "our" guy. Of course it's not our fault.

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Ho Chi Minh would have had 90% of the popular vote in a free election. We set up a puppet government under Diem, and dropped more bombs on civilians than all the bombs dropped in WWII, and we didn't start the war? We don't like what leaders they elect so we carpet bomb their entire country to put in "our" guy. Of course it's not our fault.

    You have no idea what you're talking about.
    It was a war between the US and communism, using Vietnam is a surrogate. How is that so difficult to understand? I know why. Because you want to blame the US for everything. I freely admit their involvement, but to say that they're solely responsible is absurd, and that's what you're claiming, sole responsiblity.

    And yes, the war was already going on before US got there. Or have you conveniently forgotten the French involvement?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It was a war between the US and communism, using Vietnam is a surrogate. How is that so difficult to understand? I know why. Because you want to blame the US for everything.

    And yes, the war was already going on before US got there. Or have you conveniently forgotten the French involvement?
    Which is exactly why Ho Chi Minh was so popular. He kicked out a colonial power. It had nothing to do with capitalism or democracy. It had to do with colonialism and foreign subjugation of a sovereign state. Oh yeah, the Algerians that died during French occupation, isn't any fault of the French...

    So you are saying if a nation halfway around the world, who is no threat to us, elects leaders we don't approve of; carpet bombing the entire countryside is the preferable course of action? and the bombing nations aren't responsible for the casualties. Ok.... whatever.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Which is exactly why Ho Chi Minh was so popular. He kicked out a colonial power. It had nothing to with capitalism. It had to do with colonialism and foreign subjugation of a sovereign state.

    So you are saying if a nation halfway around the world, who is no threat to us, elects leaders we don't approve of; carpet bombing the entire countryside is the preferable course of action? and the bombing nations aren't responsible for the casualties. Ok....
    My points are way over your head because you can't seem to control your Fe. Stop with the moral judgments. They're irrelevant.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    My points are way over your head because you can't seem to control your Fe. Stop with the moral judgments. They're irrelevant.
    I'm not making a moral judgment. I'm making a judgment of culpability.
    I personally don't find anything wrong with bombing gooks, as long as it furthers my interests.

    I've never had a problem with an abundance of Fe. I've used so little of my Fe, in my life, it withered and fell off long ago.

  9. #29
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    "mod Hat on": Calm it down a bit please, both of you. you both disagree on how the numbers should be divided up, but this "my way is right, yours is stupid' style of post is not good for a thread.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    "mod Hat on": Calm it down a bit please, both of you. you both disagree on how the numbers should be divided up, but this "my way is right, yours is stupid' style of post is not good for a thread.
    I was enjoying the discourse, waiting for the truth to be distilled over time. Some have no patience.

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