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  1. #51
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    I am not saying he is NOT hot. My apologies for the mis-communication earlier. Infact I agree that he is hot. But James Bond is meant to be suave and have Swagger, not hotness.

    If Bond is supposed to be Hot Daniel Craig nails it. But we want suaveness and swagger not hotness.
    Sean Connery definitely had the swagger, no question. Daniel Craig is hot in a more cerebral way, he has to be. He is very attractive to me, maybe because he doesn't have swagger, and he isn't pretty.

    That's hot.


    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  2. #52
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    For the record: I could EASILY see a black James Bond.. Tons of black people live in England. It makes perfect sense. And, like other things, a 'mantle' of James Bond definitely fits. You assume the role of James Bond.. you stop being who you were before. You're someone else now. It sort of explains all the 'different' dudes being bond, and how different they all act while still having similar badass qualities. Wouldn't that be such a crazy twist if they finally revealed that The James Bond was never one man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I will call your bluff if a white man is cast as a traditionally black character, and the black community objects. After all, one has to be a good liberal.
    Yeeahh everyone tends to leave that topic alone .. for pretty good reason though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    If I could change anything about superheroes, I would cut their chronologies a loooooot shorter. Batman started in the 30s and you have to keep up with decades and decades and decades of cartoons, comics, and movies just to get a general impression of what the hell is going on.
    To be fair, soome comic book strains do. There is a version of the justice league that almost portrays batman, superman, and wonder woman as three gods in the universe. And Batman Beyond was a great example of showing what could potentially happen to Bruce Wayne in the future.. get him working with a kid that isn't a bit creepy.

    But I think we see these small story lines more often than not in comics like X-men. Mutants die, or get killed, or get converted to darker purposes. It's a lot less black and white and dependable.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I support it. I also like when the switch up genders from previous versions of something.
    I'm always sooo skeptical. I'd rather Norse Gods by portrayed black all day long than see someone create another cat woman movie. I'm excited about eventually reading the reboot of Thor--as a woman. I think they're going to put actual effort into making that one legit and not a show-off-how-pretty-thor-can-be-esque.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  3. #53
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Question - why have a black bond? Aren't we saying that you'd have to use a premade hero franchise to make it work with a black guy?

    I mean, why not make a new hero franchise and leave that one as is?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #54
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oh I take a very unpopular view. I kinda like George Lazenby and Pierce Brown an best.

    Weirdly enough, I think Roger Moore did the most films and yet people still harken back to Sean for their "ideal".

    Until Skyfall, I'm afraid I found Mr Craig most lacklustre but then again I'm only gauging him on his character. According to my coworkers, that's missing the point.
    Lacklustre that's the word for Craig's version.

    I really liked Lazenby's version. I didn't like what he often wore but I think he nailed it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Sean Connery definitely had the swagger, no question. Daniel Craig is hot in a more cerebral way, he has to be. He is very attractive to me, maybe because he doesn't have swagger, and he isn't pretty.

    That's hot.

    Look even Danny Devito would look hot if he was carrying a gun and was reading his smart phone while in a suit.

    I am glad you noticed that Sean has swagger and is able to see the point I am trying to make when when I am trying to distinguish between those two men and words.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You and I should go on a guy-watching expedition somewhere and we can rate them for hotness and swagger and ultimate man mojo. We'll video it. It'll be hilarious.
    Hotness can be seen, suaveness and swagger has to be noticed and many people don't have it. It also has to have the right age to have that type of suave swagger Sean Connery version of Bond had. Without the age you are just a charming boy or maybe even boyish.

    I'll have to take a rain check on the guy-watching expedition .


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    ... but getting back on track... I have no issues with Idris Elba being a Bond guy.

    I'm also a proponent of Dr. Who being a woman for an incarnation... but at least that seems possible within the framework of rejuvenation.
    Look like I said earlier I don't have an issue (infact would like to see) a black guy playing someone like superman and maybe even spiderman.

    Period. And that's the line relevant to the title of this thread.

    What I am going to say next and what I have been saying about Bond has nothing to do with the OP:

    Please don't take Bond away from Britain. James Bond and David Beckham are the only British things that constantly manage to come across as sexy to the rest of the world while keeping the England/British image alive. Without James Bond and David Beckham Prince Charles becomes the hottest British man alive.

    ^ That's an exaggeration and a joke but I am sure you'd know what I am trying to say if you consider that history of the character.

    However I am all in for a female Doctor Who and was even expecting that. But they came up with NO CHANGE at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Question - why have a black bond? Aren't we saying that you'd have to use a premade hero franchise to make it work with a black guy?

    I mean, why not make a new hero franchise and leave that one as is?
    Also this.
    .

  5. #55
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    @Southern Kross it's your fault. I hope you are happy now. We just had to give Doctor Who away to women to keep James Bond alive and white .

    Evil New Zealender!

    I hope as a punishment to your cruelty if they ever come to make a movie about the 'flight of the conchords' they would use two australian actors and give them australian backgrounds!!!!

    Take that woman!
    .

  6. #56
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    The point is that characters like Doctor Who and Bond are more representative of an idea (or a collection of ideas); they're less reflective of a specific look or demeanour. In that sense I don't see why they couldn't be played by someone of a different race or sex because it would not be watering down that core idea(s). From what I understand Doctor Who has been played by handsome and plain men; both younger and older men; as rather reserved in certain versions and outgoing in others; as quirkier at times and more buttoned-up at others. The variation is great but the core idea of the character remains the same and is not threatened by that variation. Everyone has a preference for certain portrayals of the Doctor but this is the nature of the series. James Bond is the same, but perhaps not quite to the same degree (the character concept is more limited and specific in nature).

    And to an extent the same thing has happened in within comic books/graphic novels. There has been significant differences between various depictions of Batman for example. Also there is a tendency for major revisionism within a series: Robin being a woman for example (and it's rumoured that Robin will be in the next Batman vs Superman movie and be played by Jena Malone - see my avatar ). This idea that such characters are static, pure and unchanging and must be protected from the threat of even minor deviations in their film portrayal is not really reflective of comic book history.

    OT: speaking of Batman and Robin:

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  7. #57
    is indra's Avatar
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    What
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  8. #58
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post

    Please don't take Bond away from Britain. James Bond and David Beckham are the only British things that constantly manage to come across as sexy to the rest of the world while keeping the England/British image alive. Without James Bond and David Beckham Prince Charles becomes the hottest British man alive.

    ^ That's an exaggeration and a joke but I am sure you'd know what I am trying to say if you consider that history of the character.
    No, I'm 100% with you on this. It would remove so much from the character, I wouldn't even want to bother. Plus the idea of Prince Charles being the hottest man in Britain is just.....
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    For the record: I could EASILY see a black James Bond.. Tons of black people live in England. It makes perfect sense. And, like other things, a 'mantle' of James Bond definitely fits. You assume the role of James Bond.. you stop being who you were before. You're someone else now. It sort of explains all the 'different' dudes being bond, and how different they all act while still having similar badass qualities. Wouldn't that be such a crazy twist if they finally revealed that The James Bond was never one man.
    You mean like...Dread Agent Bond?
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  10. #60
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Ladies, Bond = Swagger, not HOT under a T-Shirt.

    Passacaglia sorry if I got your gender wrong .
    As Jennifer mentioned, yes, I'm a guy. And straight too, so it's not like hotness is in any way a factor for me.

    Honestly I don't even know what you're talking about when you insist that Craig lacks swagger. It's like we must be watching different actors.

    Casino Royale is basically 'Bond: the Beginning,' hence his relative lack of refinement until the more recent films. Which is part of what finally made me a Bond fan; Craig's performance injected a bit of character development into the franchise, making it more than a series of unrelated episodes.

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    I was under the assumption that the original version of James Bond was more like the Sterling Archer in the archer series. I guess Craig is doing justice to the novels if he is playing the original character. But then again would Bond have been this famous and long lasting if he Broccoli didn't change the character a bit?
    So you're fine with Bond changing from the books, but not changing from his original cinema portrayal.

    Seems more than a bit inconsistent.

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