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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What about the thinking of "What minority"?

    Surely they're all American or European. Why should skin colour matter?

    I can understand, for example, the lack of black superheroes because many were lame sidekicks or potential pr nightmares (black panther). The one exception is the excellent blade which was successful.

    To my mind, if you want equality then isn't it counter productive to keep on highlighting the divisions currently perceived? Get the person for the role as a person, not a set of vital statistics.
    I liked Black Panther and Power Man/Luke Cage both, I always thought it funny that the later had the double barrel name like you dont get Batman/Bruce Wayne and I couldnt tell you what the hell Dare Devil's real identity even is, anyway, I thought there was never any PR problems with either of them.

    In JLA unlimited the TV series, maybe even the regular JLA or it may have been the DC animated movies, I liked the depictions of the black nationalist kingdom/country which black panther hails from/represents and rules over. I even liked the whole transforming into a panther and tearing his adversaries apart bit.

    The screen adaptation of Steel with Shaq in the lead role was surely more embarrassing.

  2. #12
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    1. To me, this is the same thing as fans getting upset that an actor/actress is cast in a movie adaptation of a book, and they happen to have the wrong coloured hair BECAUSE THE HAIR COLOUR IS GOING TO COMPLETELY RUIN THE ENTIRE PLOT AND CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT ERMERGERD THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE IS DOOMEEEEEEEDDDDD.

    2. I thought Michelle Rodriguez was a minority.

    3. This whole argument to keep white roles for white people, and asian roles for asian people etc seems really small minded. Might work great if you need to sort and categorize everything (because apparently there are people who like doing that), but it just accomplishes a complete neutering of creative innovation. Comic books, their stories and characters, is a form of art. Creativity demands experimentation.

    4. Stories about superheroes are so loved because they allow us to imagine a world where limitations can be removed from the equation of life. Identity becomes more significant, more special, and the seduction of power to be used for selfish reasons is balanced by the struggle to use power for the betterment of others instead. Superhero stories give people hope. There are plenty of superheroes out of there of different gender identities and racial backgrounds. Once the demand for a superhero who people can see themselves in becomes great enough, hollywood should respond by supplying their stories.

    Goodness, hollywood is just starting to figure out how much bloomin money it can make by creating stories about women who do more than obsess about the men in their lives. It only makes sense that someone will have an epiphany and want to make stories for all sorts of other people. $$$$$
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Hmmm, I'm not a huge fan of comic book movies and I actually kind of resent the lock that Hollywood has on American and world culture. But, one thing that I'd like to point out is that it's my understanding that the comic book industry has always been socially progressive in this exact way. The industry has always in a way been run by societal outsiders. They were the first media outlets to put female characters as lead characters the same for minority characters, and they were always eager to insert controversial story lines into their plots reflecting changes in modern culture. They also haven't always done it in the most adept way, but they did it, damn it.

    I don't necessarily want to sit through comic book franchises all replayed with minority characters for the fact that they are minorities. But, like I said, I'm not a fan, and it is kind of what they've always done.
    Yeah, I'd be honest that if you're looking some kind of PC shakedown then comics wouldnt be the first place to begin with it.

    Even their most prototypically conservative characters, like superman, dont chime very well at all with what passes for official or weapons grade conservatism, whatever Clark Kent's "American Way" is it involves small town values and common decency versus the metropolitian mega rich and their tendency to buy and sell anyone they can. I bet any money there'd be a lot of commentators label that proto-communism. During the comics code battles they likely did.

    If liberalism's going to be comics next adversary what does that say about liberalism? It's taken up the mantle from conservatism in policing pop culture?

  4. #14

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    Is this because of the whole black spider man thing?

    I dont see what difference it makes.

    It reminds me of the whole "There cant be a black milkybar kid" fiasco when people hadnt anything to talk about in the nineties, which resulted in the ads disappearing altogether which I thought was shit, the same as the Hamlet cigar ads being demonised and disappearing, along with ads for drinking choclate, Guinness etc. A lot of those ads were great besides promoting products.

    In the end, years later, the company came out and said they thought it was a damned if you do and damned if you dont scenario and thought they were actually being trolled asked to feature a black kid in a choclate ad because of the amount of racist "humour" there was at the time refering to people with african origins as being dark like chocolate.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    If Idris Elba can be up for the role of James Bond, why not Diana Ross? Damn sexism. Damn ageism. Damn racism. And what is in a name? Who says a woman can't be named James?
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    2. I thought Michelle Rodriguez was a minority.
    Me too.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If Idris Elba can be up for the role of James Bond, why not Diana Ross? Damn sexism. Damn ageism. Damn racism. And what is in a name? Who says a woman can't be named James?
    Because then the conservatives would keep her out of the woman's bathroom?

    I don't know, haha.
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  8. #18
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    Fans of any material adapted to movies will get miffed at something. "Oh, no! Harry Potter's eyes were green or whatever" Wasn't there also a lot of huffing and puffing because Daniel Craig as James Bond was a blond?


    And if Wikipedia is to be believed, Nick Fury is a stupid looking white dude. Samuel L. Jackson is a better fit for the role than a stupid looking white dude, at least in the movie adaptations. In short, it worked. Screw it.
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    Fans of any material adapted to movies will get miffed at something. "Oh, no! Harry Potter's eyes were green or whatever" Wasn't there also a lot of huffing and puffing because Daniel Craig as James Bond was a blond?


    And if Wikipedia is to be believed, Nick Fury is a stupid looking white dude. Samuel L. Jackson is a better fit for the role than a stupid looking white dude, at least in the movie adaptations. In short, it worked. Screw it.
    The original Nick Fury was a white dude and he wasnt stupid looking he was a marine who had used the infinity formula which as similar to the Captain America super soldier formula and that Nick Fury dated from the second world war, the white hair was meant to give a clue to his real age.

    Even the MAX label Nick Fury was white, although its not a big deal and SLJ did fit the role alright in the movies.

    The Jame Bond rework was possible because fan theories decided that the identity 007 James Bond was actually transferable between operatives, so it never was the one guy to begin with, although I can understand why people didnt like it, the stories changed too with the actors at that time and become something more sedate and somehow also more ridiculous, in comparison to Gold Finger and the plots in space or at the bottom of the ocean that Bond used to thwart the current Bond fights east end villains over spare change.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I never saw Lost, but she's cursed with dying pretty awfully boring and odd deaths.
    Never seen Lost? You're dead to me.

    Dead, dead I say!


    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    When they created the new star trek, they put just enough of the old for the old fans to be amused, and created their own story lines for the new fans. They deviated, but not enough to piss off old fans. At the heart of the Justice League, they go look for new superheroes to join the campaign against evil, help out fellow people with powers struggling in life, etc. It really is not at ALL a narrow push to expand the league outside of America (hell, they can go around the world in on time flat) to the rest of the world and create some pretty bad ass IRL 'what if super heroes existed with x issue' shows and movies. Interpretations of all kinds of things.
    I think we know very different trekkies. The ones I know were not amused by the Abrams films.

    But I take your point. There's a middle ground between carbon-copy-remake-with-better-special-effects and throw-convention-to-the-wind-to-question-everything that keeps everyone but the most crotchety fans entertained.



    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Unfortunately, some really amazing comic books have been created already that feature amazing well developed characters... but comic books aren't known for their popularity, we're just in a very odd nostalgia-is-cool-consumerism-I-choose-you phase. So many books, and comics, have amazing stories.. incredible details. Worlds built. They just aren't popular, so no one is going to green light the movie/show/whatever.
    That is a terrible shame!

    I think I missed out on a lot by never having read comic books, 'cause all I know about supers comes from movies. I certainly have no idea what newer or off-off-mainstream comics exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Yeah, but I still think the WAY they do it is lazy. Like a bad after thought of "Oh shit, the *blacks* will complain though.." which, to me, just perpetuates the whole issue vs addressing it. Like I said, if they said, 'Fuck this, Peter Parker had his time and chance. Let's do something new.' it'd have been respectable. Making a character black last minute is not my idea of getting people used to change.. it's pretty blatantly saying 'you know we're doing this because we have to' vs because they want to.
    Hm, maybe I just don't think about this sort of thing like most people do. I do agree that films about an as-yet unfilmed supers would be awesome-sauce. And I guess I can see how a fan would get a 'We're only making PP black because of diversity demands' vibe; if someone announced a remake of the Lord of the Rings with all black hobbits I'd probably bat an eye several times. But in the end, I'd watch it all the same, and I don't think it'd be an issue for me.


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