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  1. #1
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Default Is Racial Discrimination for the Sake of Diversity Acceptable

    For Asian Americans, a changing landscape on college admissions

    Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.

    African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

    She points to the second column.

    “Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”

    The last column draws gasps.

    Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.
    The original purpose of college admission tests was to restrict Jewish access to the Ivys and still appear fair; that didn't work, so now they're using "diversity" as an excuse to penalize and reward people based on race. I'm not too worried since studies show that peer groups of like intelligence have the same earning potential no matter what college they get into. I'm also not that angry since the vast majority of asians vote and support this type of nonsense. This practice does show that the liberal elites running these colleges are racist.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #2
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    This is essentially just an acknowledgement that average SAT scores of African and Latino applicants are lower than those of East Asians (and Europeans, Jews, etc). Because the universities insist on an "appropriate" ethnic balance, a level playing field is impossible.

    But you won't get any liberal to admit that. Ever.
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  3. #3
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Racial discrimination for the sake of diversity is better than racial discrimination for the sake of exclusion. I wouldn't do it the way the OP's quote describes, though.

    Discrimination is nothing more than distinguishing one thing from another. In terms of society's opportunities, we usually see this in the context of allocating available resources, whether it be education, jobs, housing, a seat on the bus, or anything else. We discriminate all the time. We discriminate against people with no cooking experience when hiring a cook. We discriminate in favor of someone with good credit when renting an apartment or making a loan. We discriminate against the able-bodied in expecting them to give up their bus seat to a disabled person. As long as the human differences that form the basis of our discrimination are related to the matter at hand, discrimination is usually justified. If diversity in an organization is your goal, you don't achieve it by targeting the population that is already well-represented.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  4. #4
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Racial discrimination for the sake of diversity is better than racial discrimination for the sake of exclusion. I wouldn't do it the way the OP's quote describes, though.

    Discrimination is nothing more than distinguishing one thing from another. In terms of society's opportunities, we usually see this in the context of allocating available resources, whether it be education, jobs, housing, a seat on the bus, or anything else. We discriminate all the time. We discriminate against people with no cooking experience when hiring a cook. We discriminate in favor of someone with good credit when renting an apartment or making a loan. We discriminate against the able-bodied in expecting them to give up their bus seat to a disabled person. As long as the human differences that form the basis of our discrimination are related to the matter at hand, discrimination is usually justified. If diversity in an organization is your goal, you don't achieve it by targeting the population that is already well-represented.
    Ahh. And why is racial diversity in college admissions a sacred mantra?

    Incidentally, there are historical land mines associated with your example of 'a seat on the bus' (Rosa Parks).

    (The two comments are deliberately related, and implicitly.)
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    good, hot, fresh, fly ~ laterlazer's Avatar
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    Nope. I think that's so unfair and shitty for the people that work hard wth. Although I agree with Coriolis' point that it's better if it's for the sake of diversity, I think it's still bs, there shouldn't be any form of racial discrimination full stop. I really hate how some people prefer to combat racism with more discrimination, not just in this case. I think it's the wrong way to go about things.
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  6. #6
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    As long as the human differences that form the basis of our discrimination are related to the matter at hand, discrimination is usually justified.
    I agree, but hasn't society drummed into us that discrimination on the basis of race, gender, and sexual orientation is wrong and isn't that message a stupid one? For instance, female police officers are much more likely to shoot suspects than male officers; this has become more of a problem because some cities want a more diverse police force.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  7. #7
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Ahh. And why is racial diversity in college admissions a sacred mantra?
    Some colleges have the misguided notion that students learn as much from each other as from their courses and instructors. Presumably they also think one will learn less from a collection of classmates very like oneself, than from one in which those who are different are well-represented.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Incidentally, there are historical land mines associated with your example of 'a seat on the bus' (Rosa Parks).
    And what would these be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I agree, but hasn't society drummed into us that discrimination on the basis of race, gender, and sexual orientation is wrong and isn't that message a stupid one? For instance, female police officers are much more likely to shoot suspects than male officers; this has become more of a problem because some cities want a more diverse police force.
    First, I'm not sure this statistic is meaningful, or even valid. I'm sure we could find differences between: taller vs. shorter officers; older vs. younger; one racial group vs. another; only children vs. officers from large families. We could also find statistics about the things female officers do better than their male counterparts. At the end of the day, none of these factors should be an impediment in becoming a police officer, and each officer should be judged based on his/her own performance.

    Discrimination on the base of race, gender, etc. is wrong unless it is directly relevant to the matter at hand. It's not wrong to leave women out of prostate cancer screening, or require that the actor playing Theodore Roosevelt be a white male. It is not wrong to want role models who reflect the demographics and life experience of a group in need of role models, whether school children, recovering addicts, etc. It is not wrong to require that leaders of church organizations actually belong to the associated religion. It is wrong to give or withhold preference on these bases when they are not specifically necessary to the goal at hand. It is also wrong to judge an individual by the statistics of whatever group(s) he or she belongs to.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I agree, but hasn't society drummed into us that discrimination on the basis of race, gender, and sexual orientation is wrong and isn't that message a stupid one? For instance, female police officers are much more likely to shoot suspects than male officers; this has become more of a problem because some cities want a more diverse police force.
    My initial explanation for this: I assume that there are more male officers than female, so it may be that the most likely females to enter the profession are the ones most likely to shoot someone, whereas with males, those most likely to shoot someone, as well as those less likely to shoot someone, will join. This could be completely wrong and probably is.



    Also, this adding/subtracting points based on race seems totally bizarre to me. I don't have the knowledge to say if it's a good or bad thing, it's just like WTF?
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  9. #9
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    At the end of the day, none of these factors should be an impediment in becoming a police officer, and each officer should be judged based on his/her own performance.
    You don't think there should be an age, weight, or height requirement for policework?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    It is also wrong to judge an individual by the statistics of whatever group(s) he or she belongs to.
    Shouldn't there be a balance between pragmatism and fairness? For instance, I support restricting certain populations from donating blood because statistically speaking, members of that group are several times more likely to engage in risky behavior. Of course it's not fair to some individuals, but there is a cost involved (additional screenings) in being fair, so one has to weigh hurt feelings vs an extra expense.

    May I infer from your statement that you'd oppose broad banning of certain products (like bullets and guns) since the vast majority of gun owners are responsible users?
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.
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  10. #10
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    You don't think there should be an age, weight, or height requirement for policework?
    I prefer performance-based requirements rather than descriptive requirements: as in, you must be able to do X, Y and Z rather than you must have attributes a, b, and c.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Shouldn't there be a balance between pragmatism and fairness? For instance, I support restricting certain populations from donating blood because statistically speaking, members of that group are several times more likely to engage in risky behavior. Of course it's not fair to some individuals, but there is a cost involved (additional screenings) in being fair, so one has to weigh hurt feelings vs an extra expense.
    All blood is screened, so there really is no danger, and it is also unfair to those needing blood to needlessly limit the donor pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    May I infer from your statement that you'd oppose broad banning of certain products (like bullets and guns) since the vast majority of gun owners are responsible users?
    I am a firm believer that people kill people. If you are injuring others and doing harmful things, whether it be with a gun, kife, explosives, your own two fists, or even lies and slander, you should be held accountable and made to stop. Banning guns doesn't get at the real problem, and is just an easy way for politicians to look like they are addressing the problem.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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