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  1. #41
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambling View Post
    I was being serious...there were some social issues at the time with the Metropolitan police and the police were very concerned about being seen as racist, if I rememebrs correctly.

    Daily mail is right wing, Guardian left wing.
    The Guardian is a major, major champ of a lot of very illiberal liberalism, its part of the reason I began to shun it, although the "hate mail" is definitely right wing.

    The supported the Mosley's british union of fascists before the second world war and opposed its prohibition during the war and have been very friendly towards the right wing extremes ever since. Apologists for fascism.

  2. #42
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Wow. That's just...wow.

    Hope I never meet anyone so angrily outspoken.
    I agree with every word he said. I went to activist meetings in college and met some of these folks before they really developed a strong foothold on the internet. These people speak of "individualism" with a sneer(one even spoke of the Borg as an ideal!) , and their vision of the future appears to be some kind of Harrison Bergeron-esque absurdity. They're big on the idea of collective guilt, which really creeps me out. And like many totalitarian movements, they have a hostility towards the concepts of science and critical thinking.

    I honestly think they're to the left of Josef Stalin.

    Oh, and Orwell was awesome.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #43
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I agree with every word he said. I went to activist meetings in college and met some of these folks before they really developed a strong foothold on the internet. These people speak of "individualism" with a sneer(one even spoke of the Borg as an ideal!) , and their vision of the future appears to be some kind of Harrison Bergeron-esque absurdity. They're big on the idea of collective guilt, which really creeps me out. And like many totalitarian movements, they have a hostility towards the concepts of science and critical thinking.

    I honestly think they're to the left of Josef Stalin.

    Oh, and Orwell was awesome.
    Yeah, Orwell was a socialist who wrote a lot of books promoting socialism. Look it up.

    There's a lot of legitimate reasons to criticise the left, especially campus lefties, I went to those same meetings and challenged a lot of their opinions, I was probably more libertarian than conservative in my thinking in those days but all the same, I never encountered the sort of sneery anti-individualism and borg mentality you describe.

    I did encounter a lot of illiberal liberalism, people who had a pseudo-magical belief in state power, progressivism of a vague sort, lots of emoting and shaming in discussion which actually obstructed any sort of dialogue. Precisely the sorts of things I see as typical of most people online. Also a lot of baiting like trolling online.

    I think all those things are bad enough as they are without having to embellish or exaggerate or make things up. Maybe you really did encounter those things but maybe those things were also juvenile "I am whatever you say I am and I'm owning it", which I think is a shite trend, although I've seen that in both a left wing and right wing incarnation. It's only going to get worse as politics becomes more nebulous and more similar to rooting for a sports team.

  4. #44
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think all those things are bad enough as they are without having to embellish or exaggerate or make things up. Maybe you really did encounter those things but maybe those things were also juvenile "I am whatever you say I am and I'm owning it", which I think is a shite trend.
    I think it's best to take them at their word.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #45
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think it's best to take them at their word.
    Well like I say if that is the case then there's a left and a right wing variety of this and its all sport to the people involved.

  6. #46
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well like I say if that is the case then there's a left and a right wing variety of this and its all sport to the people involved.
    If it's a sport, it's not a game I'm interested in playing.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  7. #47
    Senior Member Rambling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The Guardian is a major, major champ of a lot of very illiberal liberalism, its part of the reason I began to shun it, although the "hate mail" is definitely right wing.

    The supported the Mosley's british union of fascists before the second world war and opposed its prohibition during the war and have been very friendly towards the right wing extremes ever since. Apologists for fascism.
    Oh, okay, I stand corrected. The only paper I read semi regularly is the Times these days, and I don't read that often enough to be able to do more than part of the cryptic crossword...

  8. #48
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambling View Post
    Oh, okay, I stand corrected. The only paper I read semi regularly is the Times these days, and I don't read that often enough to be able to do more than part of the cryptic crossword...
    There was a time The Guardian was left wing Francis Wheen was a guardian journo and columnist and used to do things like recommend books by Marx as Christmas presents but it was a different time.

  9. #49
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I don't care if someone is on my "team" or not. If they're acting toxic by doing things like spouting terrible ideas and bullying people for not agreeing with them (or, gasp, proposing constructive ideas), I'm going to call them out on it. If being on "the left" means I have to support that kind of crap, then I suppose I don't care too much whether I'm on "the left."

    That kind of shit isn't going to win against the right anyway, but if I call it out for what it is, maybe something better will emerge. That's my hope, anyway.

    I'd rather be a Vulcan than a Borg.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  10. #50
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I agree with every word he said. I went to activist meetings in college and met some of these folks before they really developed a strong foothold on the internet. These people speak of "individualism" with a sneer(one even spoke of the Borg as an ideal!) , and their vision of the future appears to be some kind of Harrison Bergeron-esque absurdity. They're big on the idea of collective guilt, which really creeps me out. And like many totalitarian movements, they have a hostility towards the concepts of science and critical thinking.
    Again...wow. Sounds like these kids got far enough into Philosophy 101 to use big words, but not far enough to understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I honestly think they're to the left of Josef Stalin.
    The funny thing is, the way you describe these activists is pretty much spot-on how the liberals I know see conservatives, and vice versa.

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