User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 63

  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont believe that "I dont care" or some sort of defensive apathy is really a supportable position, at least not in my experience.

    Atheism isnt that good an example for what I'm thinking about because, frankly and I dont mean to offend here, most people of religious faith dont care, there is a small and vocal but dwindling minority of people who care to try and influence people to their way of thinking when it comes to religion but most religious people dont care about atheism at all, the fact that you're referencing witch burning as a form of religious persecution which you think may have applied to atheists sort of highlights what I'm talking about.

    Instead I'd probably choose any of the religious or ethno-nationalist struggles which are erupting around the world or which have erupted in recent years. You could fence sit as much as you wanted in Rwanda, the split up of the former Yugoslavia/Bosnia or the Arab Spring but if one or the other of the protagonists took you for an antagonist you would know about it. That's why I feel that no matter how much you dislike it personally its important to be aware at the very least, maybe it only means getting out of dodge because you know what way the wind is blowing.

    Sanctimonious is perhaps a better word or more fitting praise than holier than thou, there is sanctity and sacredness attributed to may secular things, they take on a political and cultural importance consequently.

    I dont consider myself a moderate at all but having read a lot in history and politics I've been intrigued by the shifting sands of politics, its more than the simple sayings about conservatives using ideas when radicals have exhausted them or talking like a conservative and thinking like a radical, there is a cross permeation between different creeds and even when conflict reigns that in itself can be a useful and a good thing rather than anathema.

    There's unhealthy aversions to conflict alive in the world, particularly within liberal and left wing circles or cultural scenes, which leads to a myriad of bad things, it gets buried or repressed and re-emerges like the ghost in hamlet or the spot in Macbeth.

    Returning to the cross cultural or political cultural cross permeation there's a lot within cultural conservatism which was once a societal norm or which no political ideology could consciously lay claim to, certainly not uncontested and not exclusively, like work ethics to choose a fairly simple example, although, I would suggest, also traditionalism and many of the associated values but conservatism was allowed that ground and other political contenders just left the field.

    Its become very important because people who wouldnt dream of supporting fiscal conservatism wind up supporting it because they cant stomach the cultural norms, values and expectations which, almost by agreement of friends and foes alike, constitute the alternative. In the end I think its the fiscal matters which prove most important.
    I'm not exactly sure where you're going with all that. What's your point? That the left is more prone to sanctimoniousness than the right? Or is your point what you said at the start: That you don't like my attitude of defensive apathy?

    To me it's all horseshit. In the modern US, I have certain rights and protections (free speech and all that). I don't seriously worry that I'll be burned at the stake by religious nuts *or* hung as a rapist by feminists (at least not on the basis of heated rhetoric and verbiage alone). I just said those things to make a point: When ideologues start getting pushy and nasty, I'll lash out at them and tell them to fuck off. Otherwise, if they keep to themselves and only persecute each other, then I don't give a crap and they can do what they want. They have free speech rights like I do, and as long as they don't get in my particular, individual face then they're welcome to be as obnoxious as they want to be.

    In that sense it's all just hot air. If they rattle my cage, I'll rattle theirs. Otherwise, I really don't care that some feminist is hating on men in Dubuque, that some religious nut is hating on atheists in Phoenix, that some black supremacist is hating on my race in Harlem or whatever. That's fine by me. Let them shout it to the skies. If they get pushy and get in my face, I'll just tell them all to fuck themselves.

    Sure, sometimes an ideology or gripe gets such traction that some heads get split. Maybe a war even breaks out. Fine, that shit happens--it may mean that there really was some real problem there, and it's time for people to shed some blood until they get tired of killing and are willing to sit down and work out a compromise. That shit happens. I'm a Vietnam vet. I'm not blind to the possibility that some of this stuff leads to real tragedy.

    But in the modern US, to a certain extent defensive apathy is the cornerstone of peace and prosperity. Religious nuts, feminists, skinheads, etc. get in my face, and I blow them off and go about my day. It's all just hot air. They only have as much power as I choose to give them. So I ignore them. If they get in my face, I tell them to fuck off. And that way, we all get along fine.

    Let them persecute those idiots who want to play their game with them. Let them all try to one-up each other and talk about how they're all holier and more sensitive to injustices than each other. Let them howl about how they're traumatized by everything I do (or don't do). Me, I just tell them to fuck off, and we all get along fine.

    By the way, you're kind of getting in my face by telling me that I'm supposed to give a shit. I don't give a shit. I simply don't. So don't make me tell *you* to fuck off.

  2. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I'm not exactly sure where you're going with all that. What's your point? That the left is more prone to sanctimoniousness than the right? Or is your point what you said at the start: That you don't like my attitude of defensive apathy?

    To me it's all horseshit. In the modern US, I have certain rights and protections (free speech and all that). I don't seriously worry that I'll be burned at the stake by religious nuts *or* hung as a rapist by feminists (at least not on the basis of heated rhetoric and verbiage alone). I just said those things to make a point: When ideologues start getting pushy and nasty, I'll lash out at them and tell them to fuck off. Otherwise, if they keep to themselves and only persecute each other, then I don't give a crap and they can do what they want. They have free speech rights like I do, and as long as they don't get in my particular, individual face then they're welcome to be as obnoxious as they want to be.

    In that sense it's all just hot air. If they rattle my cage, I'll rattle theirs. Otherwise, I really don't care that some feminist is hating on men in Dubuque, that some religious nut is hating on atheists in Phoenix, that some black supremacist is hating on my race in Harlem or whatever. That's fine by me. Let them shout it to the skies. If they get pushy and get in my face, I'll just tell them all to fuck themselves.

    Sure, sometimes an ideology or gripe gets such traction that some heads get split. Maybe a war even breaks out. Fine, that shit happens--it may mean that there really was some real problem there, and it's time for people to shed some blood until they get tired of killing and are willing to sit down and work out a compromise. That shit happens. I'm a Vietnam vet. I'm not blind to the possibility that some of this stuff leads to real tragedy.

    But in the modern US, to a certain extent defensive apathy is the cornerstone of peace and prosperity. Religious nuts, feminists, skinheads, etc. get in my face, and I blow them off and go about my day. It's all just hot air. They only have as much power as I choose to give them. So I ignore them. If they get in my face, I tell them to fuck off. And that way, we all get along fine.

    Let them persecute those idiots who want to play their game with them. Let them all try to one-up each other and talk about how they're all holier and more sensitive to injustices than each other. Let them howl about how they're traumatized by everything I do (or don't do). Me, I just tell them to fuck off, and we all get along fine.

    By the way, you're kind of getting in my face by telling me that I'm supposed to give a shit. I don't give a shit. I simply don't. So don't make me tell *you* to fuck off.
    Yeah, it disappoints me that you'd get so aggressive with me in a thread because I'm telling you the objective truth that apathy can cost you, although its your privilege, there doesnt seem to be much in the way of infractions for people who tell me to fuck off but I'll refrain from anything like that with regard to you.

    Read a book and see how fence sitting neutrality has served so many people in the face of one or another sort of violent extremism.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, it disappoints me that you'd get so aggressive with me in a thread because I'm telling you the objective truth that apathy can cost you, although its your privilege, there doesnt seem to be much in the way of infractions for people who tell me to fuck off but I'll refrain from anything like that with regard to you.

    Read a book and see how fence sitting neutrality has served so many people in the face of one or another sort of violent extremism.
    Your rhetoric is too apocalyptic for me. Fence-sitting has served a lot of people very well across the years. One doesn't have to be a crusader for this or that cause to make it through life.

    As I said at the beginning:

    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I'm fine with actors on either end of the political spectrum seeing a genuine wrong or imbalance and trying to redress it. As a political moderate, I think good ideas can come from any sector; I welcome thoughtful spokespeople of all viewpoints.
    If you have a good idea for rectifying a genuine wrong, make a well-substantiated plea and put it through the established legislative process. I'll notice it there and pay attention to it at that time. Maybe I'll even sign on and vote for it.

    But don't try to alarm me with apocalyptic rhetoric, scare tactics, or verbiage about how my existence causes you trauma. I couldn't give a rat's ass about any of that.

  4. #34
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    SJWs are using Orwell's 1984 as an instruction manual. Remember Newspeak, e.g., "crimethink" ?
    The majority of SJWs are impressionable arts students. I therefore blame the humanities staff and student association for the phenomenon, as they have actively worked to foster a irrational, "feel-good" worldview on campus. We are peddled the nonsense that all cultures/peoples are equal, thus any differences between them are due to oppression. SJWs internalise this without question and thus develop a hatred of anybody or any group that is particularly successful, including their own families and ethnic groups.

    However, I have hope that most SJWs will temper or reject their current views as they experience more of the world. Being a socialist, feminist, anti-racist, whatever...it seems to be a phase a lot of people go through. I don't take anyone seriously unless they're actually out there campaigning.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Rambling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Not sure if I agree with that : at least looking from 'across the pond'.

    I'd like your take on the the following two items, which are related.

    1) Britain's Labour Party deliberately encouraged mass immigration to change British society and culture --

    a) Labour threw open Britain's borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a "truly multicultural" country, a former Government adviser has revealed.
    source: Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser - Telegraph

    b) Immigrants? We sent out search parties to get them to come... and made it hard for Britons to get work, says Mandelson
    source: Lord Mandelson: Immigrants? We sent out search parties to get them in and made it hard for Britons to get work | Daily Mail Online

    c) Labour's open door policy let in more immigrants in a decade than the previous 40 years
    source : Labour's open door policy let in more immigrants in a decade than the previous 40 years | UK | News | Daily Express

    d) The former home secretary Jack Straw has admitted that dropping immigration restrictions on eastern European migrants was a "spectacular mistake" on Labour's part.
    source: Jack Straw: Labour made mistake letting Poles in early | Politics | The Guardian

    (Note I picked four completely different sources, since as an American, I have no idea about the leanings of any Brit newspapers, except that there's one that has topless girls in it...and since it's not Playboy, I assume people aren't "reading it for the articles.")

    So these sources agree Labour deliberately threw the doors open to immigrants.

    Which kinda goes hand-in-hand with this:

    The Rotherham scandal --

    a) Police officer accused of having sex with underage girls in Rotherham
    Fresh claims emerge as the long-awaited findings from an independent inspection of the local authority are due to be published

    Source: Police officer accused of having sex with underage girls in Rotherham - Telegraph

    b) Groups of men are still targeting young girls for abuse in Rotherham, town's Labour MP claims

    Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...MP-claims.html

    c) South Yorkshire Police had "a lack of understanding" of the risk posed by offenders who target vulnerable children while officers showed an inconsistent response to child sexual exploitation, Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) said.

    The report was carried out in May - just months before Professor Alexis Jay's report revealed that at least 1,400 children were abused in Rotherham over 16 years.

    Officers come under fire for "regarding many child victims with contempt".

    Source: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/517...dal-criticised

    d) In August Alexis Jay, a professor and former social worker, found that gangs of mainly Asian men had groomed, terrorised and abused 1,400 girls, some as young as 11, in Rotherham over a 16-year period. Jay said police often disbelieved the young girls when they contacted the forces about their experiences.

    There have also been concerns raised over the response by police in similar child exploitation cases that occurred in Rochdale, Barnsley and Doncaster.

    Source: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...g-police-chief

    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

    The connection being, in this case:

    a) In the Rotherham scandal, the girls were systematically targeted and sexually abused by (mainly) Pakistani men
    b) These men were immigrants, not natural-born citizens
    c) The authorities not only looked the other way, but arrested the *father* of one of the girls when he went to complain
    d) This seems to conflict with the dual SJW themes of "it's for the CHILDREN" and "don't objectify womyn"

    So it looks from over here like a group of SJWs run amok at the expense of ordinary citizens -- and, for that matter, the goals of *other* SJWs. Ironic, too, to use the word "militant tendencies" since one of the core roles of the military (ultimately) is to protect the women of a country from sexual assault by foreigners...
    The policemen would have been afraid of being racist.

  6. #36
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambling View Post
    The policemen would have been afraid of being racist.
    Well, ideally the answer would be to be more open about these things. Unfortunately, just criticising immigration or making factual statements about race differences is becoming dangerous in the UK. Even if you're not charged, you could lose your job and I think that's what really worries the police in this case. Colonials have no idea how much freedom we have.

    BBC News - The fear of being seen as racist

    It says something when the BBC admits these problems exist.

  7. #37
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,380

    Default

    Also, @grey_beard:
    Public Order Act 1986 - go to part III. I am glad I don't live in the UK for this reason alone.

  8. #38
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,774

    Default

    the issue is on facebook this girl posted something about being told she was brain washed for thinking stealing was wrong, i replied and was like generally is but if it's for the greater good then it isn't. didn't get any recognition for my post but right after this girl posted on how it was do with feminism, and it was because she's a female? um no? what does stealing have to do with her gender? and what i hate people who bring their causes to situations that aren't even about that. and if his motivation was because she was female there's not enough evidence to support that. while i do have fb friends that do fight for equal rights but they do accept responsibility for their actions and don't blame the fact that they're female cuz people are generally rude to them. People aren't rude to me in general, but that's because i don't think i'm better than any one and tend to leave people alone if they leave me alone. and sometimes if they don't i ignore them depending on the situation. so it's people like that, that give sjw's a bad rep. if a lot of people are mean to you irl repeatly you should look at yourself and see if maybe you're treating a people certain way. sometimes you aren't and the people in your life are dicks.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #39
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambling View Post
    The policemen would have been afraid of being racist.
    Some victims are more (err, or is it 'less' ?) equal than others, then.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Rambling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Some victims are more (err, or is it 'less' ?) equal than others, then.
    I was being serious...there were some social issues at the time with the Metropolitan police and the police were very concerned about being seen as racist, if I rememebrs correctly.

    Daily mail is right wing, Guardian left wing.

Similar Threads

  1. [SJ] SJ's, what do you think about most of the time?
    By NewEra in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 04-17-2017, 09:20 PM
  2. What do you think about the massive tax evasion story out of Panama?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-15-2016, 07:32 PM
  3. What do you think about the Spanish-American War?
    By poppy in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-30-2015, 07:59 AM
  4. What do you think about the is ought problem?
    By Robopop in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 09:30 PM
  5. What do you think about most of the time?
    By Sacrator in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 09-01-2009, 04:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO