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  1. #1
    Senior Member senza tema's Avatar
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    Default What ISIS really wants

    What ISIS Really Wants by Graeme Wood

    The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.

    I found this a hugely interesting read.

    Two things I found particularly useful:
    a.) The attempt to shatter "true Muslim/false Muslim" dichotomies based on political correctness and guilt
    b.) The healthy reminder that Jihadism is not monolithic
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    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this! I'm nearly halfway through...sooo much to digest!

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    What ISIS Really Wants by Graeme Wood

    The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.

    I found this a hugely interesting read.

    Two things I found particularly useful:
    a.) The attempt to shatter "true Muslim/false Muslim" dichotomies based on political correctness and guilt
    b.) The healthy reminder that Jihadism is not monolithic
    This is a fantastic article.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Wood
    There is a temptation to rehearse this observation—that jihadists are modern secular people, with modern political concerns, wearing medieval religious disguise—and make it fit the Islamic State. In fact, much of what the group does looks nonsensical except in light of a sincere, carefully considered commitment to returning civilization to a seventh-century legal environment, and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse.
    Now is especially interesting to me because it reminds me of something Charles Krauthammer wrote where he said that our modern society engages in a sort of pluralist solipsism whereby we are radically denying the otherness of others.
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    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Wood
    He regards the claim that the Islamic State has distorted the texts of Islam as preposterous, sustainable only through willful ignorance. “People want to absolve Islam,” he said. “It’s this ‘Islam is a religion of peace’ mantra. As if there is such a thing as ‘Islam’! It’s what Muslims do, and how they interpret their texts.” Those texts are shared by all Sunni Muslims, not just the Islamic State. “And these guys have just as much legitimacy as anyone else.”
    In other words, President Obama doesn't know what he's talking about when he says the Islamic State is not "islamic". ISIS is not perverting Islam; they're going back to the roots. As for me, I don't really care what these savages think; I'd have nuked them 10 times over by now.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    What ISIS Really Wants by Graeme Wood

    The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse.

    I found this a hugely interesting read.

    Two things I found particularly useful:
    a.) The attempt to shatter "true Muslim/false Muslim" dichotomies based on political correctness and guilt
    b.) The healthy reminder that Jihadism is not monolithic
    The thing is that ISIS have killed more Muslims than anyone else, including the state of Israel or America the two supposed "great satans".

    Its almost as if ISIS have to kill foreign contractors and christians in a highly atrocious and spectacular way occasionally to give some credience to the idea that they see Christians or "the west" as their enemy or at least keep people distracted from what they are objectively doing.

    It is also creating a sectarian snow storm, enough bad blood, for long enough, between different shades of jihadism and political islam and they will forget the "west" and "the rest" and focus on killing one another.

    Plus the whole time it is happening foreign powers can exploit the actors in their own geopolitical games and the funding of intelligence communities and other key special interests are secure.

    Its a lot like the IRA in Irish history, they killed more roman catholics and members of their own community than anyone else, even if you are only looking at the "modern troubles" from about 1969 onwards. Its also like divide and conquer tactics with a much, much longer history but NI shows that those sorts of conflicts are much easier to begin and perpetuate than to bring to any sort of a close as one of the major legacies is that the money involved in conflict is too good, likewise there is intergenerational trauma and individuals whose entire raison detre becomes the conflict itself and their foes, they cant exist without the trappings of it all in a post conflict society so they want to go back to it.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    In other words, President Obama doesn't know what he's talking about when he says the Islamic State is not "islamic". ISIS is not perverting Islam; they're going back to the roots. As for me, I don't really care what these savages think; I'd have nuked them 10 times over by now.
    I see no reason to salt the earth, so to speak, but for once I can get on board with the right-wing knee-jerk reaction: It isn't often that a group's ideology and methods are despicable enough to make me go "Yup, these people deserve everything that's coming to them," but this is one of those times. No doubt only some ISIS members are psychopathic but as a group it's about as antisocial and dare I say, evil, as they come.

    There may be sound strategic reasons to simply bleed ISIS to death as Wood suggests, but damn, I really don't like the idea of letting ISIS murder even one more innocent -- regardless of which country or faith the victim comes from.

    Mind you, I also think that a direct attack -- if Congress gets it together to approve Obama's request for ground troops -- is only part of the solution. Annihilating ISIS without helping Syria and Iraq get back on their feet just leaves the door open for future crazies to take power.
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  8. #8

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    ISIS are a bunch of ball bags.

    Most of them cant even grow decent beards.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    What the OP article left out:

    What The Atlantic Left Out About ISIS According To Their Own Expert | ThinkProgress

    One of the oft-mentioned criticisms of The Atlantic piece is that it echoed the inaccurate belief that since ISIS’s theology draws upon Islamic texts to justify its horrendous practices, it is an inevitable product of Islam. Haykel didn’t say whether or not he thought Wood’s article says as much, but when ThinkProgress asked him directly whether Islamic texts and theology necessitate the creation of groups like ISIS, he was unequivocal.
    “No,” he said. “I think that ISIS is a product of very contingent, contextual, historical factors. There is nothing predetermined in Islam that would lead to ISIS.”
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  10. #10
    Senior Member senza tema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    What the OP article left out:

    What The Atlantic Left Out About ISIS According To Their Own Expert | ThinkProgress

    One of the oft-mentioned criticisms of The Atlantic piece is that it echoed the inaccurate belief that since ISIS’s theology draws upon Islamic texts to justify its horrendous practices, it is an inevitable product of Islam. Haykel didn’t say whether or not he thought Wood’s article says as much, but when ThinkProgress asked him directly whether Islamic texts and theology necessitate the creation of groups like ISIS, he was unequivocal.
    “No,” he said. “I think that ISIS is a product of very contingent, contextual, historical factors. There is nothing predetermined in Islam that would lead to ISIS.”
    Yeah, they're based on a particular, literalist slant on Islamic texts but are by no means inevitable. The same guy wrote a follow up article stating this but defending the choice to focus on the religious history aspect because it's so little examined according to him.

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