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  1. #81
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I think a good indirect measure of happiness is the immigration vs emigration rate. For instance, 2 million Brits of working age have permanently left that country.
    Such things depend a lot on the economy on each side of nearby borders, and I don't think are indicative of long term happiness. For example, Mexico to US immigration rate was greatly reduced (and perhaps went negative) during the great recession.
    Last edited by Seymour; 02-25-2015 at 01:46 PM.

  2. #82
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Happiness isn't necessarily a straightforward thing to measure, but some measures put Nordic countries at the top.
    That was the point I was trying to make. He makes these broad assertions based on what are subjective assumptions to begin with. Ask an older black person if they were happier in the 1950s than they were in the 1970s and their answer may not be yes. Tellenbach reasons that economic prosperity correlates with happiness, but he should consider a whole slew of other factors, not just the state of the economy.

  3. #83
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Right. I did this several pages ago. FDR didn't start the Great Depression; Hoover did. FDR did manage to prolong the Great Depression with severe tax increases (tripling of taxes), 10,000 pages of new regulations in 1934 alone, growing the federal bureaucracy which sucked resources out of the private sector (Bureau of Internal Revenue grew from 11,000 to 16,000 in 1935), implementing a minimum wage which priced 500,000 poor African Americans out of a job, setting an age limit of 16 for manufacturing jobs, union friendly laws which doubled the number of labor strikes, seizing private gold, setting price controls on agricultural products, raising the corporate tax to 50%, increased the tax on gasoline, import tarriffs which discouraged trade, etc, etc.
    I never made any claim that Roosevelt didn't prolong it. Generally, Republican policies are more likely to cause economic crises, Democratic policies more likely to prolong them.

    In short, dems are better at foresight to prevent economic disaster but not so good at ending current economic downturns; repubs are better at hindsight to determine what went wrong and employing the full power of the marketplace to correct itself, less good at foresight to avoid future economic crashes.

  4. #84
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I think a good indirect measure of happiness is the immigration vs emigration rate. For instance, 2 million Brits of working age have permanently left that country.

    Emigration: Two million quit Britain in 'talent drain'

    I feel bad that British actors and celebs like Emma Watson, Andrew Lincoln, Damian Lewis, Patrick Stewart, Kate Beckingsale, Gordon Ramsay, and Robert Irvine have to leave their home countries to pursue their dreams.
    Sorry but you're showing how shallow you've analysed this. There's been a great tradition of retiring to a foreign country in the UK due to the weather differences. That and you'd never get the same rate from the US as (rightly or wrongly) so many never travel outside of the US.

    Perhaps if you looked at the internal migration patterns in the US you might have a better picture but you'd need to do more than a cursory glance followed by a conclusion.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #85
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I think 'to miss the forest for the trees' describes Tellenbach's perspective rather well.

  6. #86
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    There's been a great tradition of retiring to a foreign country in the UK due to the weather differences.
    The two million who've left the UK are of working age, not retirement age, but the weather is probably a factor in happiness as well. I've never been to the UK but I've heard it's a lot of grey skies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Perhaps if you looked at the internal migration patterns in the US you might have a better picture but you'd need to do more than a cursory glance followed by a conclusion.
    I've done this. I might post on the migration differences between socialist California and free market Texas later on. It costs $2,734 to leave Los Angeles for Austin; the reverse trip is only $1,075. I'll explain why it's so much more expensive to leave California later on.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  7. #87
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The two million who've left the UK are of working age, not retirement age, but the weather is probably a factor in happiness as well. I've never been to the UK but I've heard it's a lot of grey skies.
    Hardly the point.

    In contrast to the US we have a tradition of moving outside of the UK. Many do it to set up a business in a foreign country with a view to retirement. With an introverted culture we're on the whole less likely to move somewhere where we don't know anyone unless we are preoccupied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I've done this. I might post on the migration differences between socialist California and free market Texas later on. It costs $2,734 to leave Los Angeles for Austin; the reverse trip is only $1,075. I'll explain why it's so much more expensive to leave California later on.
    You realise how black & white that sounds right?

    So with a short strip of land (in consideration of the size of the us) on between you have socialism next to a free market. Surely then Texas is outstripping California by miles according to your theory.

    What do you classify places like Boston as? (frame of reference as I've never been to either state you're in about, just Massachusetts, Maine and Nevada and Nevada I'd guess you would say is free market)
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #88
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    So with a short strip of land (in consideration of the size of the us) on between you have socialism next to a free market.
    Yes, California has a near super-majority of socialist Democrats and they have sizable majorities in the courts, in schools, city governments, and the state assembly. Texas is still Republican ruled.

    Surely then Texas is outstripping California by miles according to your theory.
    It's not my theory. Economist Arthur Laffer wrote a book about it called "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States".
    Some economic metrics between Texas and California:

    1. "Texas has no income or capital gains tax. California has the nation's highest income and capital gains tax rates."

    2. Texas' poverty rate is 16.5%; California's poverty rate is 23.5%.

    3. Texas' unemployment rate is 6.0% in 2013 compared to 8.3% in California.

    4. Texas has the fastest growth in employment; California is 31st.

    5. Texas has 0.43% of its population on welfare compared to 3.88% for California.

    6. California teachers have been on strike 170 times since 1975; Texas teachers have not been on strike.

    7. Texas students rank 29th in the nation; California kids rank 46th.

    And this is why people are leaving California in droves to places like Texas and this is why the U-haul prices for leaving California is so high. U-haul charges more because there is a greater demand to leave California.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #89
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Yes, California has a near super-majority of socialist Democrats and they have sizable majorities in the courts, in schools, city governments, and the state assembly. Texas is still Republican ruled.

    It's not my theory. Economist Arthur Laffer wrote a book about it called "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States".
    Some economic metrics between Texas and California:

    1. "Texas has no income or capital gains tax. California has the nation's highest income and capital gains tax rates."

    2. Texas' poverty rate is 16.5%; California's poverty rate is 23.5%.

    3. Texas' unemployment rate is 6.0% in 2013 compared to 8.3% in California.

    4. Texas has the fastest growth in employment; California is 31st.

    5. Texas has 0.43% of its population on welfare compared to 3.88% for California.

    6. California teachers have been on strike 170 times since 1975; Texas teachers have not been on strike.

    7. Texas students rank 29th in the nation; California kids rank 46th.

    And this is why people are leaving California in droves to places like Texas and this is why the U-haul prices for leaving California is so high. U-haul charges more because there is a greater demand to leave California.
    All very nice statistics, however, you haven't linked any of them to a free market except in the most circumstantial of ways. Perhaps you have some stats that would illuminate the connection?

    Not that I don't believe your stats but they seem picked with precision to prove a point and as such I'd like a bit of "meat on the bones", as it were.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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  10. #90
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    All very nice statistics, however, you haven't linked any of them to a free market except in the most circumstantial of ways. Perhaps you have some stats that would illuminate the connection?

    Not that I don't believe your stats but they seem picked with precision to prove a point and as such I'd like a bit of "meat on the bones", as it were.
    Republican pundits don't do context. Sorry.
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