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  1. #61
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Why do you think that generation after generation of the same family is what you term as "successful"? Probability is that their genes aren't that strong,so what's the defining factor?
    Some do but most do not.

    Why Most Families Lose Their Wealth by the Third Generation

    Around the world and across the centuries, heirs have lost wealth in a few short generations. In America, we say, “Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations.” In Asia, families speak of going from rice patty to rice patty in three generations. Europeans talk of the entrepreneur achieving enough success that he no longer needs to wear clogs but then watching grandchildren squander wealth, resulting in the family going from “Clogs to clogs in three generations.” Likewise, in Italy, families have been known to go “from barn stall to barn stall in three generations.”
    Studies in America provide contemporary evidence that families still lose their wealth following the time-tested pattern. 60% of families waste away their wealth by the end of the second generation. By the end of the third generation, 90% of families have little or nothing left of money received from grandparents. Ultimately, 95% of all traditional inheritance plans fail.
    I don't think it's a problem at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Without a level playing field how can you say it will all work out?
    A level playing field doesn't exist. Even in caveman days, some were stronger and faster and smarter. The more important consideration is the amount of job opportunity available. Whenever the equality crowd (Democrats with the exception of Clinton) are in power, poverty seems to magically increase. They level the playing field by soaking the rich, but the poor are not helped by this; they are devestated by these policies because redistribution of wealth kills job opportunities.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #62
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    That article was written about sudden increases in wealth. It's typically a US thing to think that great wealth comes to you from nothing. Elsewhere it's more about building upon your families wealth, hence it's more stable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    A level playing field doesn't exist. Even in caveman days, some were stronger and faster and smarter. The more important consideration is the amount of job opportunity available. Whenever the equality crowd (Democrats with the exception of Clinton) are in power, poverty seems to magically increase. They level the playing field by soaking the rich, but the poor are not helped by this; they are devestated by these policies because redistribution of wealth kills job opportunities.
    So you agree with me then that wealth gained without it being earned isn't fair... Good.

    As to this idea that rich people just build a damn every time there's a tax hike, doesn't that tell you more about the rich than the policy?
    You seriously want to trust these people to look after their workforce?

    Take a look at insurance for an excellent example. Well regulated? Not really. They can still claim a large sum of money and yet when asked to do the job they were paid for they get all twitchy about ponying up the cash. Of course there's fraud which takes a cut but why is that the consumers problem solely? Also where's the customer service when you need a payout? It was there when the policy was sold in spades. Good Christian, trustworthy, full of assurances. Suddenly you get a devil's advocate protecting their hoard like some zealous dragon.
    Are these the people you want setting the standard for your dream economy?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes Hard, Passacaglia liked this post

  3. #63
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    So you agree with me then that wealth gained without it being earned isn't fair... Good.
    I don't concern myself with fairness; the world will never be fair so why bother?

    As to this idea that rich people just build a damn every time there's a tax hike, doesn't that tell you more about the rich than the policy?
    You seriously want to trust these people to look after their workforce?
    If the choice is between a rich, greedy bastard and an incompetent socialist donkey, I'll take the rich dude. The rich person's decisions are much less likely to have a negative impact on my life compared to the incompetent bureaucrat. Again, there is just no evidence that centralized planning ever works.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #64
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I don't concern myself with fairness; the world will never be fair so why bother?
    Same reason you're bothering to discuss this...you'll never affect the changes but that doesn't mean you stop bothering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    If the choice is between a rich, greedy bastard and an incompetent socialist donkey, I'll take the rich dude. The rich person's decisions are much less likely to have a negative impact on my life compared to the incompetent bureaucrat. Again, there is just no evidence that centralized planning ever works.
    Works for the rich quite well. Try looking at any closed market, it's usually that way because the businesses involved planned it that way. Maybe that's your point but wouldn't that be like getting a dictator to run a crèche because they know how to keep people in line?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes Hard liked this post

  5. #65
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Same reason you're bothering to discuss this...you'll never affect the changes but that doesn't mean you stop bothering.
    I'm discussing this so as not to derail that other thread. The world will always be unfair but some of you think that bureaucrats can reduce the magnitude of unfairness through redistributionist policies and social programs.

    Two problems with this type of mindset. 1) You're focusing on the trivial and ignoring the bigger picture, job opportunity. It's not the unfairness of the world that creates poverty but lack of job opportunity that's the cause.
    2) The people who want to redistribute wealth are the least qualified to do so; I offer healthcare dot gov as exhibit A. It'd be hilarious if it didn't cost us taxpayers over $500 million....probably close to a $1 billion if you include the state websites. To put in place the bureaucratic machinery to redistribute wealth would suck way too much resources out of the private sector and kill jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Works for the rich quite well. Try looking at any closed market, it's usually that way because the businesses involved planned it that way.
    Huge difference between central planning in a company and central planning the entire economy. In a company, you may have a couple thousand parts to make and order. In the economy, you have several tens of millions of parts to manage. This is why there were always shortages of certain products in Russia and long lines of sad people.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  6. #66
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I'm discussing this so as not to derail that other thread. The world will always be unfair but some of you think that bureaucrats can reduce the magnitude of unfairness through redistributionist policies and social programs.
    Oh you misunderstand. I don't trust any group which is identifiable. I just trust big businesses who can hide who's responsible and escape accountability less than most others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Two problems with this type of mindset. 1) You're focusing on the trivial and ignoring the bigger picture, job opportunity. It's not the unfairness of the world that creates poverty but lack of job opportunity that's the cause.
    Poor people are poor because they have no money. You want decisions made for them by people who already have money and who tend to see them as feckless and lazy?

    I already have enough of a problem with there being no poor people in politics, why would I support this?

    People with money know how to keep it. They also know how to beat the opposition. Now they're Robin Hood too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    2) The people who want to redistribute wealth are the least qualified to do so; I offer healthcare dot gov as exhibit A. It'd be hilarious if it didn't cost us taxpayers over $500 million....probably close to a $1 billion if you include the state websites. To put in place the bureaucratic machinery to redistribute wealth would suck way too much resources out of the private sector and kill jobs.
    Least qualified by whom?

    Oh and NHS, thank you very much. Still there. Still under fire from all quarters. Still free, even if you're feckless.

    I do believe you're supposed to have a larger and stronger economy in the states are you not?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Huge difference between central planning in a company and central planning the entire economy. In a company, you may have a couple thousand parts to make and order. In the economy, you have several tens of millions of parts to manage. This is why there were always shortages of certain products in Russia and long lines of sad people.
    So why let them run things? Obviously they are I'll equipped.

    As most industries have an oversight organisation in place, obviously they can't be trusted all that much.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    If the choice is between a rich, greedy bastard and an incompetent socialist donkey, I'll take the rich dude. The rich person's decisions are much less likely to have a negative impact on my life compared to the incompetent bureaucrat. Again, there is just no evidence that centralized planning ever works.
    You must live in another universe.
    Likes Hard liked this post

  8. #68
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Poor people are poor because they have no money.
    People have no money because they can't get jobs.

    Least qualified by whom?
    For example, Medicare and Medicaid (the two biggest social programs in the USA) lose about $100 billion/year in waste, fraud, and abuse and these two programs are considered great successes by Democrats.

    Oh and NHS, thank you very much. Still there. Still under fire from all quarters. Still free, even if you're feckless.
    Didn't a whole bunch of old people get left alone in hospital waiting rooms dying of thirst over there?

    I do believe you're supposed to have a larger and stronger economy in the states are you not?
    Yes, if the UK were an American state, it'd be ranked 49th out of 50 in economic prosperity.

    As most industries have an oversight organisation in place, obviously they can't be trusted all that much.
    If an industry screws up, it doesn't cost me anything; it costs the company and shareholders money. If the government screws up, it costs me money because I pay taxes.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Your "facts" are meaningless because your fundamental analysis and information gathering methods is broken. I've pointed this out to you several times in the past, but it's fallen on completely deaf ears each time so I don't try anymore. I have no interest in debating, or discussing anything with you in this thread, because as I have also said before, you are the most unreasonable person I have ever met in my entire life.
    Tellenbach is the most annoying person on the internet. He thinks it's because he's brilliant, a great example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #70
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus
    He thinks it's because he's brilliant, a great example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
    No I don't, but I am more knowledgeable than most.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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