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Thread: Why Free Market Capitalism Works

  1. #291
    deplorable basketcase Array Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex
    Is this real?
    This is what I said:

    That's a small part of it. The 2nd Amendment wouldn't have let the government do to its citizens what the Nazis did
    I never said the Nazis couldn't come to power. I was referring to the wholesale murder of millions of German citizens by the Nazis. That couldn't happen.
    If bees did go extinct, we could always hire people to dress up as bees and pollinate flowers with tiny feather dusters. Sure it'd be more expensive, but there are also millions of idle teens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andresimon
    Prior to the Real Estate bubble every bank leveraged 50:1 seemed like a genius.
    It didn't seem like genius to me. When any institution receives taxpayer funds (FDIC, in the case of banks), of course you regulate them to protect taxpayer money. It is irresponsible of the government to allow this type of speculation.

    Cause and effect are rarely clear when you are talking about economic and social systems.
    I disagree. Every time the government interferes with businesses or tries to redistribute wealth, economic indicators (employment rate, median incomes, GDP growth) suffer. The Great Depression and the 2008 financial crisis had the government's paw prints all over them.

    By 2008, before the financial crisis, there were 55 million mortgages in the US. Of these, 31 million were subprime or otherwise risky. And of this 31 million, 76 % were on the books of government agencies, primarily Fannie and Freddie. This shows where the demand for these mortgages actually came from, and it wasn’t the private sector.
    In addition, the president’s (Obama) policy is, once again, encouraging borrowers who have trouble meeting their obligations to become homeowners. This is exactly what happened when Fannie and Freddie were required to meet the quotas of the affordable housing goals. Tragically, many of the families who were lured into buying homes they could not afford were later evicted. As Barney Frank, once one of the key proponents of this policy in Congress said in 2010, “it was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn’t afford and couldn’t really handle once they had it.”
    ‘Hidden in Plain Sight': A Q&A with Peter Wallison on the 2008 financial crisis and why it might happen again

    The Dems never, ever learn.
    If bees did go extinct, we could always hire people to dress up as bees and pollinate flowers with tiny feather dusters. Sure it'd be more expensive, but there are also millions of idle teens.

  3. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    That's fine. I don't really care. [...] Sure.
    Good. I was wondering in what kind of bizarro world silly moralistic sentiments were able to invalidate facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    But my whole point is that if that is the case then you have no right to be on your high horse about how your country "protects public and private safety" with its gun control laws. It's the equivalent of Americans with half their shit made in China bragging about their own environmental laws and tut-tutting Chinese pollution.
    I disagree with this view, but we are not going to reach a mutually agreeable end to this discussion, so I am simply going to let it rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    I need an adult. @Nicodemus, HALP.
    Don't feed the fanatics. They fail to meet the basic criteria for acceptable interlocutors: the ability to see and integrity to admit when they have been proven wrong.
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  4. #294
    Lex Parsimoniae Array Xander's Avatar
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    Why is it people get all religious zealot about that old bit of paper?

    And is it just America where people refer to "the goevernment" as if it's composed of people other than citizens of that country?

    Been watching some YouTube linked to some activist hick or other somebody Jones... This thread reminds me if him so much. Lots of passion, no brains.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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    (in)formation Array Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Don't feed the fanatics. They fail to meet the basic criteria for acceptable interlocutors: the ability to see and integrity to admit when they have been proven wrong.
    You're right. I should leave him, because I do deserve better. I'm so glad we talked about this. Thank, Nico.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Why is it people get all religious zealot about that old bit of paper?
    I don't know, man. Maybe they indoctrinate us young or something. It's hard to focus on the question when all my executive functioning is currently being applied to not destroying the British asshole that just shat on the Constitution with the nearest musket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Having fun and being rational are not mutually exclusive. It's harmless needling; if you do feel antagonized, then I apologize.
    Ah, so you're an extremist and an antagonist. Thought so.

    Are you an anarchist as well?

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    In my opinion, yes to some point free market capitalism works. But it works in the realm of its subjective usage independent on the external consequences. When it comes to fitting it into a larger framework of democracy in most of the western countries, it's one big failure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andresimon
    I'm not sure you can see the inherent conflict in what you are writing. On one end you are talking about "government" and then on the other side you are pointing the finger at democrats.
    There is no conflict. Some destructive policies like the Smoot Hawley Act came from Republicans, albeit a progressive one. Many destructive policies come from Democrats; Obamacare and the minimum age are examples.

    It's like taking a quarterback and comparing them with a runningback.
    If we're going to use the football analogy, it's like comparing the Patriots to the Detroit Lions.

    The system itself as well as the rules is still "football" changing the players won't do much.
    Clearly untrue, since some nfl teams are much more successful than others.

    Any one who thinks what Reagan did or what our system has been based on in any period of time in the past 100 years as "free-market-capitalism" can be described only two ways. Stupid or a liar.
    I've addressed this point at least three times in earlier posts, but I will gladly do it again. There is a continuum of economic freedom. Nations with low taxes and low regulations are ranked high and repressive economic systems are ranked low.

    Index of Economic Freedom

    Hong Kong and Singapore are ranked high and North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba are ranked low. Nations that are economically freer tend to have much higher standards of livings.

    If you want to truly be robust in your assumptions then you will quickly realize very few things can be proved empirically
    This isn't mathematics. There are obvious trends in economic indicators that follow certain policies; we should pursue policies that have worked until they don't work.

    Democrats never learn? ...Seriously? This us vs them attitude is probably far more correlated with our problems than any one label or group.
    Labeling or identifying the problem is the first step in finding the solution.

    Arguing over what model is best when neither has actually been nor can be tested is absurd. Instead we should simply observe the world around us, agree where positive progress can be made, and test as many approaches as it takes on a small scale in order to achieve better outcomes. Low risk, high reward, convex, tests. Beyond that scale what works and learn from what didn't..
    You are stuck on the word "model". I prefer to use the word "policy". Certain policies work and certain polcies don't work. I agree that we should test certain policies and we have lots of evidence that certain policies are more successful than others.
    If bees did go extinct, we could always hire people to dress up as bees and pollinate flowers with tiny feather dusters. Sure it'd be more expensive, but there are also millions of idle teens.

  9. #299
    deplorable basketcase Array Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona
    But it works in the realm of its subjective usage independent on the external consequences. When it comes to fitting it into a larger framework of democracy in most of the western countries, it's one big failure.
    Failure is subjective. I think higher standards of living, higher wages, and greater job satisfaction are evidence of success.
    If bees did go extinct, we could always hire people to dress up as bees and pollinate flowers with tiny feather dusters. Sure it'd be more expensive, but there are also millions of idle teens.

  10. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Failure is subjective. I think higher standards of living, higher wages, and greater job satisfaction are evidence of success.
    I think, that high level of stress, anxiety, mental disorders, emotional instability , lack of freetime, lack of time for family, lack of understanding of the emotional needs this all goes hand by hand with the way free market competence force us to be so highly productive and able to win the fight between the producers. It's about winning as a company , or losing as an individual. If you win as a company, you might get a better standard of living, the sacrifice of your personal life and health in many cases is simply too high. The differences between the poor and the rich are growing each day, we feed on the weak and the weak work for us, only to be able to at least have an access to basic needs such as water or food.
    On hand there are millionaires living their life materially secure, on the other there are the poor who are the slaves for the rich. Slavery is however there for each one of them. The rich is the slave to his money, the poor is the slave simply because he wants to survive.
    Slavery has no place in modern democracy, however yet it is still present by every point you look at the sitation we all have to face.
    On the other hand, it also forces us to develope and grow, to bring better quality of our products and concure with better services. There are always pros and cons, I just wish we could develop as a whole without a need to be slaves to any kind of system, that is desctrucrive for the humans.
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