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  1. #261
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I don't rate one above the other. The polar bear is a better swimmer but the black bear is a better tree climber. Both excel at certain activities. I don't think one is superior to the other. What is it that you don't understand?
    And yet you have nothing but insults for anything other than capitalism, what I'm seeing as the brown bear in this thread. Hence you claim to be even handed and yet you are not.

    I've read three of Laffer's books. I've done no interpretation at all; I've merely presented some very powerful statistics of economic metrics that change when supply side economic policies are implemented. I do think everyone should join in because this is the most successful economic theory that's been presented. It'd be a religion if I had asked you to believe on faith; I haven't. I've given the reader the data and the reader should decide for himself.
    You have presented some data which in isolation indicates something. The blatant ignorance of any additional factors is verging in the religious of old in my book.

    The original question I asked was: Why do you think Spain, Italy, France, and Greece have such high unemployment rates? You never answered.
    You didn't ask that question. The answer if because they have few jobs due to having little money overall. It's highly likely that the rich in Spain spend it abroad or keep it tucked away. It works for banks, why not individuals.

    The unemployment rate tells you the health of the economy. If you have high unemployment, that usually means you are doing something wrong.
    Where do you get these ideas? I think your pastor needs rest. Unemployment shows the state of employment. Anything you extrapolate from that is inferred not proven.

    All of the wealth comes from the private sector. All the money that the government spends comes from the private sector. Since capital is created by the private sector, it makes sense to expand the private sector and decrease the size of the unproductive sector. Governments can help the economy by providing security and getting out of the way.
    Let me be clear. ONLY WHERE THERE IS PROFIT TO BE MADE WITHOUT SCREWING THE GENERAL POPULACE.

    Hence no private military, no private police and no free reign to be a double because you have money. That's an unfair society which will kettle those on lower wages and result in violence.

    Defense is a Constitutionally defined role. Providing universal healthcare insurance is not a defined role. Most of what the government does is not mandated by the Constitution.
    You do realise that I couldn't give a flying monkeys left testicle about your scrap of paper. Jesus and they say bits live in the past.

    You give carte blanche to your leaders. That's the system. All you can do is elect good ones when you can to counteract the ones you don't like.

    Americans spend 7.6 billion hours each year filling out their income tax forms. That's $193 billion spent in compliance with just 1 law.
    Compare that to the cost of fast food including weight gain, reliance on hospitals etc etc. How about the smoking industry? Alcohol more your thing?

    Your world view is so simplistic and blinkered I am continually amazed at your degree of certainty.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #262
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    And yet you have nothing but insults for anything other than capitalism
    That's because economic theory isn't a bear, lol. The correct analogy to use when comparing capitalism to socialism would be 21st Century physicians versus alchemists. One is very clearly superior to the other; capitalism is logic-based; socialism is emotion-based.

    The blatant ignorance of any additional factors is verging in the religious of old in my book.
    In clinical trials of pharmaceuticals, do you ever ask "what other additional factors"? I don't ask because usually, the only variable is the medicine; and if other factors aren't controlled, it's bad experimental design. It's the same with economic policies. Nothing changes except for the economic policy. Vermont and Connecticut have similar population sizes and similar weather, but Vermont has vastly superior economic growth. What other additional factors are there? I don't see any and if there are additional factors, detractors and critics of Laffer have not brought it up. You haven't brought up any additional factors.

    Where do you get these ideas?
    It's common sense. If lots of people are unemployed that means that businesses are struggling. If businesses are struggling, that means there is something wrong with the economy.

    Anything you extrapolate from that is inferred not proven.
    It's subjective but I think most people would agree with me that an economy with 5% unemployment is much healthier than an economy with 25% unemployment.

    You do realise that I couldn't give a flying monkeys left testicle about your scrap of paper.
    We are the world's only superpower. I think every nation should pattern their government after ours.

    Compare that to the cost of fast food including weight gain, reliance on hospitals etc etc. How about the smoking industry? Alcohol more your thing?
    What's the connection between burdensome regulations and smoking? Americans are getting fatter despite more regulations. In fact, I can easily make the case that the government's food pyramid and demonization of meat is a big contributor to the obesity problem.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #263
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    That's because economic theory isn't a bear, lol. The correct analogy to use when comparing capitalism to socialism would be 21st Century physicians versus alchemists. One is very clearly superior to the other; capitalism is logic-based; socialism is emotion-based.
    Beep. Emotion is enemy. Beep.

    I'm guessing that everything you chose to believe in is similarly amazing. What's it like to be soo good?

    Socialism was based on the principles of equality. It got screwed up. Capitalism was based in the principles of freeing individuals to achieve, it also got screwed up. Know why? Because turkeys don't vote for Christmas. The same reason why competent people are passed over for promotion. They may be propping up incompetent management or be seen as a threat.
    In clinical trials of pharmaceuticals, do you ever ask "what other additional factors"? I don't ask because usually, the only variable is the medicine; and if other factors aren't controlled, it's bad experimental design. It's the same with economic policies. Nothing changes except for the economic policy. Vermont and Connecticut have similar population sizes and similar weather, but Vermont has vastly superior economic growth. What other additional factors are there? I don't see any and if there are additional factors, detractors and critics of Laffer have not brought it up. You haven't brought up any additional factors.
    I'm sorry, I must be your first INTP. If course I think of the additional factors. What you're asking is like asking if I drew breath whilst reading it.

    As for additional factors you're ignoring how about desirability of the property? How about fashion? How about just about everything about humans which seems to escape you. You know like their humanity.
    It's common sense. If lots of people are unemployed that means that businesses are struggling. If businesses are struggling, that means there is something wrong with the economy.
    Common sense? That old oxymoron? I thought you were a fan of facts and proofs and other such assumptive nonsense?

    Lots of people unemployed means they aren't employed. What you're missing is why they're unemployed. That bit you're assuming.
    It's subjective but I think most people would agree with me that an economy with 5% unemployment is much healthier than an economy with 25% unemployment.
    I think most people would put that under "job market" and anyone worth their salt would find out what constituted those figures.
    We are the world's only superpower. I think every nation should pattern their government after ours.
    And there we go. Convinced of superiority.

    Having visited the states I'd say it's the richest third world country, blessed with overactive media.

    There are things about the USA which are respectable. The focus on money is not one of them. As for constitutions, well thus us what you get for putting all the religious nut jobs in one place I guess.

    You know the UK has a constitution. Couldn't tell you what it says as, like God, it's irrelevant in a civilised society.

    What's the connection between burdensome regulations and smoking? Americans are getting fatter despite more regulations. In fact, I can easily make the case that the government's food pyramid and demonization of meat is a big contributor to the obesity problem.
    I'm pointing out how much private enterprise costs the infrastructure. In a less well regulated system they could put the costs up even higher which would then inevitably lead to a larger government to keep the people safe. This is why a while back I said it's a balance. I'm guessing that didn't fit your image as well as levelling me a socialist though.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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  4. #264
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post

    Having visited the states I'd say it's the richest third world country, blessed with overactive media.

    Truer words have never been spoken (and I say this as a citizen).
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  5. #265
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I'm going to take the accepted INTPc stance on the issue, and conclude that because capitalism has problems, we need to give Bolshevism another crack. Communists are atheists (when it's convenient, anyway), so therefore, Communism is good and a solution to all our problems.

    Feel the logic.
    Last edited by Julius_Van_Der_Beak; 04-08-2015 at 09:54 AM.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  6. #266
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    France is viewed as a garbage by negativists.


    But we can still eat home-made bread and buy some cheese (not so often from France...).

    The everyday publicity in the street, on the radio _with of course a really lovely voice into the speakers_ will even make you more greedy.

    About happiness and economy : as soon as you are still a nice ignorant person,

    and don't know that other systems work better than yours (which always take you from granted anyway),

    all is well that ends well



    Michel Sapin -the "minister of euros"- announced economic growth will be of one per cent only.

    1,5 would be useful to make things better, or let's say to still have some hope ...


    Unemployment (10 per cent of the active population) is still very "fashionable" in my country


    You Americans even steal our bras ! "Sun capital partners gave to an underwears group Dbapparel (master of Dim, Playtex, Wonderbra)

    which itself gave all of our dentelle to the american Hanesbrands for 400 millions euros."



    Yes ! I can understand some french women go bare chest in the streets to defend their rights !


    Poor ones, they are afraid an american tourist passes by with a crusty baguette at the corner of the "cul-de-sac"

    and steals the top of their brand new french bikini (bought in France of course) America-made.



    Où va le monde ?!

    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  7. #267
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    @ExNinjaTropPervertie Bonjour. Ca va? Sorry about Lance Armstrong ruining all those Tours de France. What a jerk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Beep. Emotion is enemy. Beep.
    Emotion as basis for public policy is stupid. It's stupid because what feels good or right (eg. smoking pot everyday) is very frequently destructive and bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    What's it like to be soo good?
    It is both a gift and a curse.

    Socialism was based on the principles of equality.
    I disagree. Socialism is merely justification for plundering by jealous, lazy people.

    The same reason why competent people are passed over for promotion. They may be propping up incompetent management or be seen as a threat.
    There is no such thing as perfection, but that is no argument for emotion based, irrational ideologies.

    Common sense? That old oxymoron? I thought you were a fan of facts and proofs and other such assumptive nonsense?
    If you observe a sequence of events that always occur in that same order (sun rises, then sets), then it's logical to assume that the same will occur in the future. That is common sense.

    And there we go. Convinced of superiority.
    Obvious fact. The history of the 20th century is the history of American exceptionalism.

    I'm pointing out how much private enterprise costs the infrastructure.
    This is the Elizabeth Warren argument and it's faulty logic. Private enterprise creates the revenue that builds the infrastructure.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #268
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Private enterprise creates the revenue that builds the infrastructure.
    That private enterprise depends on. It's a cyclical thing, really. Continued investment in public infrastructure enables the continued success of private enterprise which cannot possibly finance and maintain their own road nets, power grids, airports, etc.
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  9. #269
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Emotion as basis for public policy is stupid. It's stupid because what feels good or right (eg. smoking pot everyday) is very frequently destructive and bad.
    And yet you, yourself, pose the idea that you might be an extremist with the title of your blog thread. I'm struggling to think of circumstances where extremist and unemotional fit together.

    I disagree. Socialism is merely justification for plundering by jealous, lazy people.
    Making capitalism a system where by the rich can justify treating others like second class citizens because there's now a scoring system to rank people on?
    There is no such thing as perfection, but that is no argument for emotion based, irrational ideologies.
    It's an appeal against the extremist mentality.
    If you observe a sequence of events that always occur in that same order (sun rises, then sets), then it's logical to assume that the same will occur in the future. That is common sense.
    For tomorrow thus much is true but to assume forever more and Base large decisions off of it? You need more than an assumption.

    Also logic is not an answer but a method. Its certainly not a stick to beat people with.
    Obvious fact. The history of the 20th century is the history of American exceptionalism.
    Ahahaha. It's the history if a great press agent. On the same way as the Russian nation in WW2 it sells itself well, especially to its own people.


    For example with the vapor market many talk about buying American build quality and paying a bit more for it. Now consider cars, you don't pay for American quality manufacturing. In fact you expect them to be cheaper to make up for it.

    This is the Elizabeth Warren argument and it's faulty logic. Private enterprise creates the revenue that builds the infrastructure.
    As pointed out above, it's not a one way arrangement. Hence, no matter what, some services are better off not being delivered by the private sector because they cannot be effectively monetised.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #270
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    @ExNinjaTropPervertie Bonjour. Ca va? Sorry about Lance Armstrong ruining all those Tours de France. What a jerk.

    Emotion as basis for public policy is stupid. It's stupid because what feels good or right (eg. smoking pot everyday) is very frequently destructive and bad.
    maillot jaune!.jpg

    Smoking pot before biking products the effect "coup de fouet".

    You Americans stole our bras, but you'll never get the "G string maillot jaune"
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
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