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  1. #101
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Problem, less tax means less military.
    Actually, it doesn't. Cutting taxes means more economic growth, which means an expanded tax base, which translates to more tax revenue. I've already given examples earlier, but I could give additional examples if you'd like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    So with less tax and no death tax (I'm assuming it's like inheritance tax here) the money stays with the same people.
    This is largely a myth as well. 95% of the wealth that's passed down is lost by the 3rd generation.

    I do think the jump points are a little vicious. If you only marginally cross over you don't tend to see much in return. Mind you its often only a short stopping point for many so what's the end cost?
    The fairest tax would be a consumption tax; I'm ok with that as well if it means eliminating the income tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Wouldn't this mean that as a business I'd make sure that my legal costs were shown to be so high that no one would claim incase they lost?
    Pretty much all legal costs are great in the USA. 'Loser pays' legislation would discourage "ambulance chasing" or frivolous/ shakedown lawsuits.

    You mean the pretty much world renowned NHS does nothing for you? I hope you don't get sick when you're abroad.
    The NHS is terrible, as is every government run healthcare system. If you eliminate the 3rd party, you force hospitals and doctors to respond directly to the customer ---the patient. Currently, there is little interest in serving the patient because the patient is not the customer. This is why we hear stories of people dying of thirst and ignored for days while waiting for care in the UK.

    You must be amazingly sure of your own worth to support such ideas. Rich family maybe? Perhaps an accountant?
    Empirical evidence. Each idea is backed up by dozens of examples of success, plus it's just common sense.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #102
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Thousands dying of thirst on NHS: Watchdog forced to issue guidelines on giving patients water

    Tens of thousands dying in hospital from kidney failure linked to dehydration
    NHS officials calculate up to 42,000 deaths a year could be avoided
    NICE issuing guidelines to help staff prevent deaths from condition
    Estimated a fifth of patients attending A&E every year suffer from the illness
    The family of Sandra Aston, 79, have told how they smuggled ice lollies in to Redditch Alexandra Hospital after nurses left her so thirsty her lips cracked and bled.

    Mrs Aston was ‘treated like an animal’ by nurses, who claimed they could not help when her family begged them to act as she became increasingly dehydrated.
    The NHS sucks; time to scrap it and start anew. Put Gordon Ramsay in charge, lol.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #103
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Actually, it doesn't. Cutting taxes means more economic growth, which means an expanded tax base, which translates to more tax revenue. I've already given examples earlier, but I could give additional examples if you'd like.
    Actually, short term it doesn't because you have to budget. Plus with your reliance on people trusting each other you'll find the market becomes more reactionary and self protecting which could end up with more wealth under the mattress which would lead to less taxes and less movement of wealth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    This is largely a myth as well. 95% of the wealth that's passed down is lost by the 3rd generation.
    Didn't we kinda find out that didn't include those who were rich for more than the last five minutes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The fairest tax would be a consumption tax; I'm ok with that as well if it means eliminating the income tax.
    Well as the rich tend to consume more of everything that would make sense. Up you can't eliminate income tax. What would be the point? To shine the egos of people without any other means of value other than money? You must be an accountant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Pretty much all legal costs are great in the USA. 'Loser pays' legislation would discourage "ambulance chasing" or frivolous/ shakedown lawsuits.
    Perhaps a change in the law would be better. Oddly enough requiring companies to have reasonable small print and to tell you about it gets rid of a lot of the nonsense or solves the "case" before court. The problem is the American obsession with being owed something by everyone else which is why it's litigation heavy and why they'd never change it. It also is why there's this obsession with not paying for any free loaders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The NHS is terrible, as is every government run healthcare system. If you eliminate the 3rd party, you force hospitals and doctors to respond directly to the customer ---the patient. Currently, there is little interest in serving the patient because the patient is not the customer. This is why we hear stories of people dying of thirst and ignored for days while waiting for care in the UK.
    You also hear stories about no go areas due to Muslims and terrorists. That's because you're listening to horse shit.

    By and large the NHS delivers free medical care to people without a hitch. It's also well respected on the world stage for its levels of care.

    Suggestion, quit looking for confirmation only.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Empirical evidence. Each idea is backed up by dozens of examples of success, plus it's just common sense.
    87.5% of all statistics are made up.

    All you've included is the probability. Empiricism implies measure and you can't measure the impacts of what you're on about on the bottom line. You can suggest and predict but not measure.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes Hard liked this post

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    A waitress deserves to earn whatever her skillset demands. David Beckman has a greater skillset so he demands more money than the waitress.
    This was probably talked about later in the thread. But, a waitress could have a higher skillset than Beckham and still receive less pay than Beckham because of the relative availability of the skill. And the upper level of skills valued by the company.
    Likes Xander liked this post

  5. #105
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy
    But, a waitress could have a higher skillset than Beckham and still receive less pay than Beckham because of the relative availability of the skill.
    A contortionist probably has a more impressive skillset than Beckham but no one's interested in contortionists so they aren't going to make a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    You also hear stories about no go areas due to Muslims and terrorists.
    This is also true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    All you've included is the probability. Empiricism implies measure and you can't measure the impacts of what you're on about on the bottom line. You can suggest and predict but not measure.
    Of course you can measure the impact of socialist/centrally planned policies vs free market policies. Just look the changes in income, economic growth, employment before and after the changes are implemented.

    For example: When New Zealand eliminated the capital gains tax, the death tax, luxury tax, and sold off and privatized the airlines, railways, seaports, bus lines, banks, hotels, etc., it went from 23 consecutive years of deficits to 17 consecutive years of surpluses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    By and large the NHS delivers free medical care to people without a hitch.
    Tell that to the 42,000 people killed by NHS ineptitude each year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Didn't we kinda find out that didn't include those who were rich for more than the last five minutes?
    No, this was all inheritances from the rich, both old and new money.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  6. #106
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    NHS approval ratings constant after fall last year

    Public satisfaction with the NHS remained broadly stable in 2012 after a record fall in ratings the previous year, the British Social Attitudes Survey revealed today.

    The poll, published by the King’s Fund think-tank, found that 61% of people were satisfied with the NHS, compared with 58% in 2011 and 70% in 2010.
    To understand why 61% of Brits approve of the inept NHS, you have to first understand something about the British people. These folks also love EastEnders, one of the most horrible TV shows ever broadcast.

    From wikipedia: "It is one of the UK's highest-rated programmes, often appearing near or at the top of the week's BARB ratings. Within eight months of its launch, it reached the number-one spot in the ratings, and has consistently remained among the top-rated TV programmes in Britain. As of July 2013, the average audience share for an episode is around 30 percent."

    How did this impaired judgement come about? I think they've become inured to mediocrity and hardened to crappy service. You understand this phenomenon if you watch Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsay. In many episodes, Chef Ramsay will ask the owners to rate their food. Most of the time, these donkeys will rate their food 9 or 10 out of 10. These people genuinely believe that their crappy food is delicious and nothing will convince them otherwise. It's only when Chef Ramsay offers them his recipes and dishes that they finally get it.

    I wouldn't say these people are delusional; they just have a warped perspective from being treated like crap decades at a time. They think shitty service is the norm and that's why they support the NHS.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  7. #107
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    This is also true.
    Wait. It's true they screwed the pooch or that there's no go areas.

    Please say the former....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Of course you can measure the impact of socialist/centrally planned policies vs free market policies. Just look the changes in income, economic growth, employment before and after the changes are implemented.

    For example: When New Zealand eliminated the capital gains tax, the death tax, luxury tax, and sold off and privatized the airlines, railways, seaports, bus lines, banks, hotels, etc., it went from 23 consecutive years of deficits to 17 consecutive years of surpluses.
    I thought that was where we differed. So if I can find a correlation between the movements of my ass and a markets behaviour then my ass controls the market?

    Wow. I will now set out to prove the power of my ass.

    Seriously though, you are again relying on pure circumstantial evidence and assumption. There may be a causal link but you're not going to find it assuming one leads to the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Tell that to the 42,000 people killed by NHS ineptitude each year.
    As opposed to what? Letting them die without trying? What's the figures elsewhere?

    Also you'd need to prove it was ineptitude and jot due to other reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    No, this was all inheritances from the rich, both old and new money.
    Not in the study you quoted earlier.

    You tend to find in generations rich families that you get mitigated risk. Multiple siblings to spread the damage.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #108
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    ...
    I'm sorry but that whole post is based on your opinion. Even the greatest chefs cannot cook for everyone either.

    You'd need to live here to understand the mindset but no we don't expect bowing and scraping. However we also don't pitch a hissy fit when we don't get what we want.

    You prefer your national style and I mine. Who is "more correct"? Well that's obviously me because I'm the defined type.

    INTPs rule!

    Seriously though, the psychology involved here is not something to be trivialised by what show is popular. Want to be classified as someone who watches televangelists? What about being classed as a red neck?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #109
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    I thought that was where we differed. So if I can find a correlation between the movements of my ass and a markets behaviour then my ass controls the market?
    You're trying to argue that dramatic changes in multiple economic metrics following policy changes are coincidental, that economic policies don't affect the economy at all. This is strange logic given the absent empirical evidence in the reverse. Where are all the coincidental positive changes that occur when nations raise taxes and increase regulations? Why is the change in one direction? Hmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    As opposed to what? Letting them die without trying? What's the figures elsewhere?
    As opposed to providing quality care ---- looking after the patients instead of ignoring them. If you don't know what good quality care is, then you accept lousy care. In the USA, many young voters don't know what a strong President or economy looks like, so they think Obama is doing a decent job when in fact, he's the 2nd worst president ever; same phenomenon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander
    Seriously though, the psychology involved here is not something to be trivialised by what show is popular. Want to be classified as someone who watches televangelists? What about being classed as a red neck?
    I'm sorry, but a nation that loves EastEnders can't be trusted to exercise good judgement in anything else
    If Brits think crappy TV is good, then perhaps they think crappy healthcare is good as well.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #110
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    You're trying to argue that dramatic changes in multiple economic metrics following policy changes are coincidental, that economic policies don't affect the economy at all. This is strange logic given the absent empirical evidence in the reverse. Where are all the coincidental positive changes that occur when nations raise taxes and increase regulations? Why is the change in one direction? Hmmm.
    I'm of the thinking that proof requires proof not simple "thus was done and thus happened". It's too easy to manipulate, misunderstand or just plain miss.

    For example, the Conservative party here bangs on about how they led us into recovery after the labour parties messing up the economy. No mention of the banking crisis made by many of their own supporters and using policies they put in place to shaft the economy. No mention of the world economy recovering and hence feeding into the UK. Just the banal statement that they were in office when it happened, ergo they did it.

    Too easy to spin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    As opposed to providing quality care ---- looking after the patients instead of ignoring them. If you don't know what good quality care is, then you accept lousy care. In the USA, many young voters don't know what a strong President or economy looks like, so they think Obama is doing a decent job when in fact, he's the 2nd worst president ever; same phenomenon.
    Come now. Play the game. How many people are similarly treated in American hospitals. Then include how many people die for want of proper health care in both societies. That would be a fair measure.

    As for presidents being "strong", that's opinion based and not an empirical test without parameters. Even then the parameters are likely picked on personal preference making the empiricism a waste of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I'm sorry, but a nation that loves EastEnders can't be trusted to exercise good judgement in anything else
    If Brits think crappy TV is good, then perhaps they think crappy healthcare is good as well.
    Keeping up with the Kardashians.

    Nuff said.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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