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  1. #131
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Which homosexuals, and anyone not straight, agree with as well. no one thinks its outlandish or wrong that heterosexuals exist. No one is trying to make homosexuality a norm for people in society. They want to make it normal to SEE, and normal in the sense that people don't think they're sick, deranged, and need social conditioning. they want to be safe to be themselves in their own private lives.
    Case in point:

    - You see a guy and a girl walking down the street holding hands. "Oh, isn't that sweet? They're so in love! They look so happy together."

    - You see two guys walking down the street holding hands. "That's weird, I feel sick. What's wrong with them? I wish they'd stop flaunting their sexuality!"

    - You see two girls walking down the street holding hands. "They must be really good friends, how cute."


    And we're only talking about holding hands here.

    One instance is socially validated; one instance is viewed as morally repulsive; and the other is whitewashed so that it doesn't really exist.

    Realistically, all three should just be treated the same.
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  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Which homosexuals, and anyone not straight, agree with as well. no one thinks its outlandish or wrong that heterosexuals exist. No one is trying to make homosexuality a norm for people in society. They want to make it normal to SEE, and normal in the sense that people don't think they're sick, deranged, and need social conditioning. they want to be safe to be themselves in their own private lives.

    And it is really easy to miss how awful the treatment still is now-a-days unless you're in someone's shoes. You're not really in a circle of friends (probably) that actively hates on homosexuals, you're not homosexual, and you probably have little in the way of friendship with homosexuals as a community (maybe one or two in your circle, whatever), and honestly you probably just don't see the issues because nothing in your life is exposing you to them. If you bother to look, though, they're there. Homelessness is still a problem even if everyone around you has a home.



    This is the question a lot of homosexuals ask. Because they don't invite heterosexuals into their lives to make determinations on them. It is others forcing themselves onto the situation. "Hey, we're consenting adults, and plenty of non-religious ceremonies for marriage already take place. Let us get married." "NNOOOO!!!!!!!" "Hey, I'm a homosexual, just so you know." 'Okay, son, let's take you to conversion therapy because no son of mine is going to be gay!'

    Homosexuals are not seeking validation from others. They're seeking education, and safety, and legal rights. Someone doesn't have to be gay to empathize with the fact that they don't want their own brother, or cousin, or father to be beaten in the streets for his own private affairs. And if you don't think that sort of thing still exists, it is because you're not looking at all.

    Being gay does not prevent, stop, or in any way interrupt your freedoms and choices as a heterosexual. But heterosexuals, for reasons outside of sexual orientation, frequently infringe on the rights of .. well.. anyone not hetero really.

    Even as a heterosexual my private rights are frequently called into question and infringed on. Why I'm not married and I'm close to 30.. why I don't have children.. why I don't want children... And even when I tell them why, I'm told I'm crazy, or my ideas are dismissed as, 'Oh, you'll change your mind.' As if I don't get a say in my own life choices somehow. *and I don't have to deal with a fraction of the issues homosexuals do.* There are people who's private lives are called into question because they don't meet someone else's criteria all the time. 'Oh, yeah, you're heterosexual, FINE, but you're not the same religion!' 'You're not the same race!' etc. etc. I wasn't scared of being disowned by my parents when I told them I was dating someone I was really in love with. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes on the subject to me. 'Hey mom and dad.. this person is a good influence on my life, they've turned me around and I feel love for life and others again thanks to him.' That could get people kicked out of their entire families forever. It's a sad situation. And it is exactly what you stated... people judging people on personal, private lives and matters that have no influence or sway on their anything but their own private lives.
    Well, if you're happen enough with that line of thinking, good for you I suppose.

    I'd not be satisfied with just so one dimensional a portrayal of things, its pretty cliched and cut to fit neatly with a liberal gay advocate party line but if it works for you great. There's another side to it all but for the time being you dont seem interested.

  3. #133
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well, if you're happen enough with that line of thinking, good for you I suppose.

    I'd not be satisfied with just so one dimensional a portrayal of things, its pretty cliched and cut to fit neatly with a liberal gay advocate party line but if it works for you great. There's another side to it all but for the time being you dont seem interested.
    There's a side to everything. At the end of the day, you put the pieces together and find out what the world is trying to show you. But my view is *not* one dimensional and cliche. Dismissing a stance the same way a woman would dismiss another woman for her choice and taste in shoes does not make it one dimensional. What is cliche and over-tired is heterosexual people going, 'I don't care, the world don't even care, why are you pushing your agenda onto me?' as if homosexuals have some agenda in the first place. It isn't them with agenda, it is heteros. No one would be pushing for anything if ANY majority would just take some active effort into critical thinking and fix issues before they became issues. If the majority would take a serious moment to just empathize, and relate to the minorities in their population, a lot of issues would be non-issues. If even one major lawmaker was like, "Oh hey, so I noticed we only have men and women allowed to marry but no one mentioned anything like that in the laws officially. Why do we even have this? Seems like it's just based on subjective bias.. Let's change it." 'Oh hey, I noticed that all adults do not have the same rights yet for no reason at all. Let's change that before we go through years and years of treating other human beings like property and trash to avoid a civil war. Let's establish that precedent now.'

    An extreme feminist screaming about what kind of shirt a man wears when he lands on a god damn comet? That's pushing one dimension, ill-thought-out agendas. A homosexual saying he wants to get married but heterosexuals are being silly about the issue? That's not an agenda. That's someone fighting for rights that ought to have existed long ago if it were not for the bigoted bias of majority parties.

    You're saying you don't care if homosexuals do their thing, just to leave you out of it. They want the same thing. But they require heteros to get there because everyone has to work as a whole in society to get shit done. Heterosexuals created this mess, so of COURSE homosexuals are going to bug them to fix their own shit and take out their own trash. Minorities cannot vote out the majority on their own, and voting is the best system we've come up with so far.. not that it's perfect by any means.
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  4. #134
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    A homosexual saying he wants to get married but heterosexuals are being silly about the issue? That's not an agenda. That's someone fighting for rights that ought to have existed long ago if it were not for the bigoted bias of majority parties.
    Not sure about this one Kyuuei. If you term marriage as the legal arrangement then I'd agree wholeheartedly, it's insane. No set of rules should define who forms a legal coupling other than to protect society (hence you can't marry someone under age of consent). However if you mean the religious ceremony then I'm sorry but if you sign up to the religion then you should abide by it, not just the bits you agree with.

    I've seen the arguments played out over here and I can't fathom why someone would follow or care for a religion which demonises them for their heartfelt choices. It's kind of like buying a bike as an agoraphobic and then complaining it works best outside and it should be changed to work better indoors. If you made the choice to join said religion then you should live by the consequences of your choice. I'd even call it reasonable.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #135
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Not sure about this one Kyuuei. If you term marriage as the legal arrangement then I'd agree wholeheartedly, it's insane. No set of rules should define who forms a legal coupling other than to protect society (hence you can't marry someone under age of consent). However if you mean the religious ceremony then I'm sorry but if you sign up to the religion then you should abide by it, not just the bits you agree with.
    I think the major issue in the US right now *is* the political aspect of marriage. Unfortunately religious views were used as a basis for prohibiting legal marriage in this regard, and that is what the US is in the process of untangling at the moment, as no one can raise a valid non-religious argument as to why same-sex marriage cannot be legally offered despite the case going to SCOTUS.

    There are some people who would like to see certain religious honor same-sex marriage, but I think that is a war that has to be fought within the denomination(s) themselves and not politically. They're basically battling over the "definition of Christianity" and what the doctrine is going to be.

    I've seen the arguments played out over here and I can't fathom why someone would follow or care for a religion which demonises them for their heartfelt choices. It's kind of like buying a bike as an agoraphobic and then complaining it works best outside and it should be changed to work better indoors. If you made the choice to join said religion then you should live by the consequences of your choice. I'd even call it reasonable.
    Think about it from another perspective: A group of people has taken control of your faith that means so much to you and guides your life, and you are trying to reclaim your religion for what you think is true. That perspective is in operation for BOTH sides; to ask one side to just "give up and abdicate" something they value so highly and has been such an integral part of their lives even to this very day is a rather ludicruous suggestion. You are asking them to relinquish their entire past and the ideas that form who they are.

    ....

    For homosexuality "cures/change," there are no real statistics... so for a group to promote a set of statistics in order to "get customers" has been rightly labeled as consumer fraud. There is also the issue of promoting something as an illness so that someone can then offer a cure, when the majority of psychiatric experts have for a long time specifically deemed one's orientation NOT to be an illness.

    The question of legality, same-sex marriage, and whatever else is besides the point being made by this particular legal decision.
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  6. #136
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    proposed law: everytime a ceo tries to screw people over, a bullet through the head
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #137
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    I haven't noticed public social mores in the United States trending more towards conservative goals for at least forty years..
    Lark is a Catholic living in Northern Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Nice try, though.
    All that was tried succeeded.
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  8. #138
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont see any grounds for agreement or even discussion, really, with you on this topic. So I'm not going to waste your time and mine.

    I didnt read that post, if you're wondering.
    If you think this is going to dissuade me from addressing the issue when you say crap about this, you got another thing coming.
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  9. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    https://news.vice.com/article/judge-...reaking-ruling


    we've known for decades it doesn't work nor should it, so its a bit sad that its taken this long for steps to be taken to make it illegal. The practices should've been shut down when dsm decided homosexuality was no longer a disorder back in the 70s it's now 35 years later. I guess better late then never
    Just now replying so forgive me if someone else already made this observation.

    In general, it's a joke how slow the US justice and legislative systems have been to realize these things.

    It's as silly as the US gov't making apologies to native american tribes for past atrocities decades or centuries after the fact.
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  10. #140
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    No one has the right to tell a homosexual that he/she must remain that way, and any left-lib who thinks so shouldn't be regarded as a liberal in any way.

    But if the therapy doesn't work, then you have a fraud.

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