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  1. #21
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Anything, anything at all, can be hijacked as you say.

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

    Also why does the past only serve as a guide to the future in matters judged undesirable or failed?
    It doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    It doesn't need to be coerced - it could be incentivised. Govt can offer cash to certain "qualified" individuals to undergo voluntarily sterilization.



    Men in Black aside, this is a baseless assumption. An idiot can be an idiot all by himself, he doesn't need another idiot to be stupid.
    Already happening. India offers incentives, such as free cars, to people who agree to be sterilised.

    I think your taking what I said way to seriously and way to literally.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    It doesn't.



    Already happening. India offers incentives, such as free cars, to people who agree to be sterilised.

    I think your taking what I said way to seriously and way to literally.
    Interesting, this says a lot about you.

  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhodses View Post
    reproduction is not a right, it's a privilege
    Reproduction is a human right, but with every right comes responsibility. Someone unable to understand or discharge the responsibility might legitimately be denied the accompanying right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There are already subtle ways in which eugenics already works in class divided societies, human capital or social capital, in the form of culture and knowledge and skills, have life limiting consequences for a lot of people. The diets of rich and poor, even in affluent countries experiencing days of plenty differ so much. Diabetes, smoking related illnesses, alcohol related illness, trauma, stress, mental illness, they all have massive concentrations in some populations and operate to ensure a short life span.
    It seems the poor reproduce at much higher rates than the affluent in many societies, perhaps out of ignorance, and perhaps out of lack of access to birth control or simple personal autonomy.

    As for the OP, a woman like the one described should have had a legal guardian appointed upon reaching the age of majority. This person could now consent to sterilization on her behalf, after examining the pros and cons. Moreover such a guardian could/should have been able to prevent her from having so many children for whom she can obviously not care, to begin with.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Reproduction is a human right, but with every right comes responsibility. Someone unable to understand or discharge the responsibility might legitimately be denied the accompanying right.


    It seems the poor reproduce at much higher rates than the affluent in many societies, perhaps out of ignorance, and perhaps out of lack of access to birth control or simple personal autonomy.

    As for the OP, a woman like the one described should have had a legal guardian appointed upon reaching the age of majority. This person could now consent to sterilization on her behalf, after examining the pros and cons. Moreover such a guardian could/should have been able to prevent her from having so many children for whom she can obviously not care, to begin with.
    I'm not sure about the Guardianship arrangements in the UK for vulnerable adults, I am familiar with their appointment to children and adolescents in the care system but I've not known that they can give conscent on others behalf as you describe, maybe its so.

    I've always thought that the law in the UK treats children almost like they are liberated minors, in so far that they are not subject to things such as custody orders by parents during seperations, they are only subject to residence orders which say they reside in particular places with particular people, rather than exercising rights sort of on their children's behalf or having any right to their children parents exercise responsibility as a parent. That's as I understand it and I'm not a legal professional.

    As to the poor reproducing at higher rates, I would suggest most of it is unplanned or accidential, if it is planned it could be about welfare scams but for the most part I can discount that as I've had first hand contact with most of those involved in that sort of thing, most of the shrugging, scamming mindset is an ego defence against dire circumstances and fatalism.

    All the attachment research can, depending on how you interpret it, mean that evolutionary are darwinist drives are all operating in this context, driving for more births, and they always will whatever the external circumstances are, for richer or poorer if you are hardwired that way you will have a nursery of sprogs.

  5. #25
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    A good decision.

    Personally, I think we should aim to eliminate the state, but for now that's a distant dream.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    A good decision.

    Personally, I think we should aim to eliminate the state, but for now that's a distant dream.
    I'd sooner eliminate capitalism.

  7. #27
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'd sooner eliminate capitalism.

  8. #28
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    maybe we should just sterelize the forum, there done
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #29
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not sure about the Guardianship arrangements in the UK for vulnerable adults, I am familiar with their appointment to children and adolescents in the care system but I've not known that they can give conscent on others behalf as you describe, maybe its so.
    In the US, anyone can have a legal guardian appointed by the court if it can be demonstrated that he or she does not have the capacity to make decisions for his/her own life. Sometimes this happens with elders who succumb to Alzheimers or other forms of dementia. It is often done with people who have mental handicaps that prevent their deciding on their own behalf. I have a friend with serious mental retardation, whose parents retained legal guardianship when she reached adulthood, and later became the guardians of one of her roomates at the group home where she lives.

    Guardianship allows the guardian to make all manner of decision on behalf of the person: medical, educational, where to live, etc. Guardianship can be contested if a friend, relative, or someone else involved in the person's care thinks the guardian is being neglectful or abusive. If money is involved (say an inheritance), control of that often resides separately in a trustee. The guardian will then request funds from the trustee as expenses come up for the upkeep of the person in their care.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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