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  1. #1
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    Default Should people who choose not to vaccinate themselves/their children be segregated?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/29/us...ents.html?_r=0

    Do you believe people/children who have chosen not to be vaccinated (as opposed to the average expected group of people with compromised immune systems who cannot process the vaccine properly) should be separated from those who have been vaccinated?
    Where should the line in the sand be drawn between personal freedom and government regulated law with regards to vaccinations?

    When I'd first heard about the Jenny McCarthy rampage on vaccinations being linked to autism, and then subsequently the author of the study admitting he had lied Retracted autism study an 'elaborate fraud,' British journal finds - CNN.com , I thought that well intentioned parents would come around and get back on the stop-preventable-diseases-and-fatalities-train. (it seems some are, thankfully Demand for Measles Vaccine Sends Crowds Even to Anti-Vax Docs - NBC News)

    As most of us know, vaccinations work by imitating an infection and resulting in the body developing antibodies to react to any future contact with a live virus. When the majority of people have developed antibodies, herd immunity occurs, and a virus is not able to spread as effectively as it could have without a vaccine.

    By choosing not to vaccinate their children out of fear or misunderstanding of autism (which is determined before birth, and existed long before vaccines were available, but which usually presents around the same time children are old enough to be vaccinated), parents are betting that every other kid in their class will be vaccinated, and rely on the herd immunity of everyone else to keep their child safe. Safe from the preventable fatalities of polio, measles, whooping cough. When enough of these kids are not vaccinated, herd immunity fails because viruses are meant to mutate and evolve into more resistant strains. The resulting strains could be different enough from the viruses your vaccine-developed antibodies that you are no longer protected.

    I really did make an effort to learn more about the arguments against vaccination to see if there was any scientifically viable, but I was only able to find snazzy looking gifs about how pharmaceutical companies are just out to get you. Prove me wrong, teach me something. I'm genuinely curious, and if the science behind vaccines are wrong, come with a solution to replace the current way of things.

    Other than impending doom at the hand of idiots, I'm especially boiled up about this because it doesn't cast a loving light on people with autism, or people with special needs in general.
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  2. #2
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    Dear Mods, I've posted this thread within the politics/history/current events section in order to have a discussion about this topic's societal impacts and considerations. Please move to another section if you see fit.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    This is a difficult question to answer.

    Measles Can Kill, And It's Spreading. Sue Parents Who Didn't Vaccinate? Absolutely. - Forbes

    I still haven't decided where I come down on this issue, but I do know that if my child died of measles because some anti-vaccer's kid infected her, I would flay them alive.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #4
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I think @JAVO might be either anti-vax or on the fence.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.
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  5. #5
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    Other than impending doom at the hand of idiots, I'm especially boiled up about this because it doesn't cast a loving light on people with autism, or people with special needs in general.
    This. The fact that people would prefer to risk their child dying of the measles, or spreading the awful disease to another child who subsequently dies, to their child having autism is insane. 1/110 kids are on the autism spectrum. Before we had vaccines infant/child mortality was much higher than this. Granted, we also did not have the medical care to deal with infectious diseases. But still.
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  6. #6
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    I am inches behind the border of supporting mandatory vaccination, whether you like it or not (unless there is a medical reason for not being able to have it). Simply don't want it because of your deeply held personal beliefs? Tough shit. This is an issue of national health and your feelings don't matter here. Needs of many > wants of few.

    As such, I absolutely support segregation for refusal to vaccinate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    if the science behind vaccines are wrong.

    It's not. It also incredibly self evident and clear as crystal as to what vaccines do, what their purpose is, their potential harm profile, etc. This is not directed at you but; I am so sick and tired of people asking to validate the science, and prove it's save. IT HAS BEEN. YOU just don't like it. End of story. Go fall off a fucking building if you don't agree with it (again I am not referring to you, I just feel very strongly about vaccination and can get worked up over it).
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I am inches behind the border of supporting mandatory vaccination, whether you like it or not (unless there is a medical reason for not being able to have it). Simply don't want it because of your deeply held personal beliefs? Tough shit. This is an issue of national health and your feelings don't matter here. Needs of many > wants of few.

    As such, I absolutely support segregation for refusal to vaccinate.




    It's not. It also incredibly self evident and clear as crystal as to what vaccines do, what their purpose is, their potential harm profile, etc. This is not directed at you but; I am so sick and tired of people asking to validate the science, and prove it's save. IT HAS BEEN. YOU just don't like it. End of story. Go fall off a fucking building if you don't agree with it (again I am not referring to you, I just feel very strongly about vaccination and can get worked up over it).
    Maybe we could drop both the evolution deniers and the anti-vax people on an island where they battle to the death. That would rid the world of a whole lot of stupid.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."
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  8. #8
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Mother of a two week old newborn here. She is going to get all the recommended vaccinations. Anyone jeopardizing the health of my child because of some screwed up anti-science conspiracy theory shit is going to feel the wrath of Zuul.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Maybe we could drop both the evolution deniers and the anti-vax people on an island where they battle to the death. That would rid the world of a whole lot of stupid.
    Amen to that!
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  9. #9
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Ok but it has to be approached from the perspective of actually doing it in a pragmatic sense, and not just saying it as a scare tactic to get people vaccinated, or as a way of expressing how stupid you think they are if they don't.

    I don't believe in idle threats. You back up what you say to the letter and don't be surprised when it has to be done. Somebody is going to have to round these people up and accept that you can't stop people from making their choices. Or in other words, focus on the pragmatic mechanism of getting it done and how it effects the health of population and ignore the ideas of incentive and deterrence.

  10. #10
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Also I'm not a fan of vaccines but I got them anyway because I'm selfish like that. Disease is an integral part of evolution and nature's way of regulating populations. So to those who don't get vaccines and believe they won't get sick - you're doing it for the wrong reasons. If you aren't willing to accept the disease and possibly die then you are wrong.

    However I feel that humans are so out of touch with nature that it is pointless and in fact hopeless to try and make the argument for evolutionary benefits of letting disease run its course, and how human interference actually makes disease worse in the long run. It is pointless for me to say that because nobody cares and nobody wants to get sick, including me.
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