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  1. #71
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I just have never felt comfortable as an informed mother going along rotely with all the vaccinations a government agency decides my kids need. Especially when my kids are not at very high risk for many things where I live.

    It's one thing to calculate statistics on data and accumulate incidence and prevalence data on disease. But I believe the government does not have the right to browbeat their idealized treatment regimens on society at large, which consist mainly of medically un(der) educated parents, in their self-righteous zealotry to 'protect' the masses using whatever means necessary, even denigration and degradation (as you are doing here).

    In short, I, nor my kids, are a 'number'. We are perfectly capable of picking and choosing and shopping for which medications we feel are good for us to use.
    See the language of this is very interesting to me.

    Its not an act of conspiracy or authoritarianism to provide protections from disease because it simply unavoidable or dangerous to neglect that task.

    The neo-liberals and libertarians I know who thought it was a legit public spend were not the biggest on paternalism truth be told, I mean they were/are the meanest of the mean, fiscally and every other way. So I'm not sure how it could be chalked up to that.

    What interests me about all that is that if a foreign power, even a really poor ass one like north korea, wanted to hit and hurt the US all it would have to do is release a bio attack, wouldnt have to be a serious one either to have an economic impact from days lost to sickness, and feed "suspicions" to domestic US sources, with social media to spread and reinforce it there'd be nothing surer that US citizens would themselves assist in the spread of a later day plague.

    And people pride themselves that they wouldnt have been as stupid as a lot of the people during the black death with their superstitious ways.

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    Sorry for the thread derail, if it needs wiped out and deleted that's grand.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Just a wild guess (I am not going to read all that gibberish): #GayAgenda : 46.
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  3. #73
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Man uses sock to circumvent Mississippi sex ed rules | WREG.com


    this is actually genius considering you can't use the word condom or actual programs in ms sex ed
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by headlessredhead View Post
    In light of recent events in the lgbtq+ community (look up Leelah Alcorn) there's been a lot of talk about what we should be teaching in sex education classes. (Mostly in America) A lot of people are calling for more lgbtq+ issues to be talked about in health/sex ed, including sexual safety, gender and gender identity, basically stuff beyond heteronormative stuff that is usually talked about.
    However, to do that we kind of have to talk about sex, rather than spewing this old abstinence stupid.
    So my question is: Should we expand sex ed to teach all genders/sexualities? If so, how? If not, then why?
    Opinions anyone?
    I would prefer the schools keep it professional and focus on sexual anatomy, physiology, and reproduction (i.e., male sperm to female egg). I teach my children old-fashioned values and abstinence until marriage.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    I would prefer the schools keep it professional and focus on sexual anatomy, physiology, and reproduction (i.e., male sperm to female egg). I teach my children old-fashioned values and abstinence until marriage.
    I think being able to know the difference between abuse or exploitation and proper conscent would be a good start. Abstinence until marriage can be insufficient because abstinence may not be sufficient, it depends how it is handled, also people may need or want to be abstinent after marriage, marriage isnt licence and there can be gender power issues in a marriage too, particularly in relation to sexuality.

    I agree with the rest whole heartedly.

    Something I think hasnt been thought about is the jeopardy and difficulty associated with teaching these topics for an accountable adult, they could be subject to allegations and that has an impact, also I'd like to see the screening process for teachers or carers which is perfect too, I've met lots of people in professional circles who give me cause for concern about how they handle these topics and they are actually charged with doing so already.

  6. #76
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    I would prefer the schools keep it professional and focus on sexual anatomy, physiology, and reproduction (i.e., male sperm to female egg). I teach my children old-fashioned values and abstinence until marriage.
    The problem is abstinence has shown to be one of the least effective methods to keep teenagers healthy and safe in regards to sex. Teenagers should be absolutely educated in all areas involving sex. Parents have a right to teach what they want to their kids, but ultimately the kids should be free to decide on what is right for them based off what they learn from their family, and the world around them. Further, sexual education is an issue of national health, not just a values issue people seem to crusade about.
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  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The problem is abstinence has shown to be one of the least effective methods to keep teenagers healthy and safe in regards to sex. Teenagers should be absolutely educated in all areas involving sex. Parents have a right to teach what they want to their kids, but ultimately the kids should be free to decide on what is right for them based off what they learn from their family, and the world around them. Further, sexual education is an issue of national health, not just a values issue people seem to crusade about.
    I respect that. It's just hard to hear because I held out. It is possible and I have no regrets.

    On that note, I feel too strongly about this topic and I feel too tired to debate, so I'm bowing out gracefully.

  8. #78
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    I respect that. It's just hard to hear because I held out. It is possible and I have no regrets.

    On that note, I feel too strongly about this topic and I feel too tired to debate, so I'm bowing out gracefully.
    Probably for the best because this is something I will debate into the ground over and I don't back away from easily.
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  9. #79
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    All that's fine, I've no objection to that at all but if homosexuality is a minority norm, of which some people dont want to learn about, then why not accept that and tailor the curriculum that way?

    Compelling kids to sit through compulsory schooling in homosexuality is not going to endear them to the homosexual minority, especially if its something which others, including adults, such as teachers, parents etc. are going to find equally objectionable.

    If there is a magic bullet to expell bigotry this definitely is not it.
    No, actually; that is the magic bullet to encourage prejudice, by singling out the minority for scrutiny, like the insect under the magnifying glass. We cannot exclude from the curriculum information on topics people don't want to learn about, however. That would be irresponsible education. We have to show students how the world is. Otherwise we would exclude discussion of black history or accounts of other minority groups, just because they are minorities. That is a recipe for ignorance and a second-class status for everyone not in the majority. I outlined how these differences might better be taught in a previous post.

    I think one problem is the use of the word "norm". What do you mean by "norm"? If it is the average of a group, then "minority norm" is an oxymoron. If you mean that it is not wrong but simply another way to be human, then yes, being in a minority group like blacks, asians, gays, left-handers, etc. is just exhibiting a different "norm". We can address whatever objective distinctions exist without attaching value judgments, or perpetuating ignorance and fear of the differences that sometimes mask our common humanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There is some sense in what you say because I think the LGBT curriculum would be value laden and about validating and reinforcing homosexuality rather than choices or facts about sexual orientation.
    There should be no "LGBT curriculum". That is the counterproductive option you mention in the quote above. The reality of LGBT people should be included in existing curriculum where it fits, whether as part of biology, sex education, psychology, social studies from a civil rights perspective, or even the arts. See: we don't single them out, we fold them in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The problem is abstinence has shown to be one of the least effective methods to keep teenagers healthy and safe in regards to sex. Teenagers should be absolutely educated in all areas involving sex. Parents have a right to teach what they want to their kids, but ultimately the kids should be free to decide on what is right for them based off what they learn from their family, and the world around them. Further, sexual education is an issue of national health, not just a values issue people seem to crusade about.
    Yet another example of educators designing curriculum with blatant disregard for the facts, and for what actually achieves the result they claim to want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    I would prefer the schools keep it professional and focus on sexual anatomy, physiology, and reproduction (i.e., male sperm to female egg). I teach my children old-fashioned values and abstinence until marriage.
    You may have better success teaching your children abstinence as their parent, since they live with you and will have grown up with these values from infancy, and seen them modelled in their family and social circles. It has failed as an educational program in schools, I suspect because it is not something you can teach in that context. As you say, let school arm students with accurate facts and allow families to help their children use those facts to make good decisions based on what the family values. I would hope that one of those values for everyone is tolerance for divergent viewpoints and respect for everyone as a fellow human.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  10. #80
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    Bump.


    The national news here today has been talking about the government of the province of Ontario launching an ad campaign about the newly revised sex ed curriculum, just as the new school year begins. The revisions have been met with strong opposition from religious groups, who have painted the curriculum as a deliberate affront to their "traditional beliefs".



    The Campaign Life Coalition, nominally an anti-abortion activist group, has been among the most vocal sources of opposition to the curriculum. They're conveniently broken down the moral depravity of the revised curriculum for us. Some of the problems with the new curriculum include:

    • Grade 1 students (6-year-olds) will learn "graphic lessons on sexual body parts including 'penis', 'testicles', 'vagina' and 'vulva'."
    • Grade 3 students (8-year-olds) will learn "the disputed theory of 'gender identity' as if it were fact," and "homosexual family structures and homosexual 'marriage' will be normalized in the minds of 8-year-olds, without regard for the religious/moral beliefs of families."
    • Grade 6 students (12-year-olds) will learn "masturbation is a 'pleasurable' way for children to learn about their bodies," and "In addition to promoting the practice of masturbation, the curriculum will teach about 'vaginal lubrication'."
    • Grade 7 students (13-year-olds) will learn "Under the pretext of encouraging abstinence from behaviours associated with high risk for STDs, the curriculum uses a sleight of hand to sneakily introduce to children the concepts of 'anal intercourse' and 'oral-genital contact'. Those are ideas that many of these 12-13 year old kids might not be aware of, or at least, have never seriously considered as an act they could be taking part in now. In another sleight of hand, 'anal intercourse' is lumped in as a sexual act of the same kind as vaginal intercourse, with no differentiation between the two types of sexual acts, either morally or with respect to risk for sexually transmitted disease, for which the former carries dramatically higher risk."



    I could go on but it's getting late and I'm sure their anti-education propaganda has made the point clear. If you actually read the excerpts from the curriculum Grade 1 students really will learn what body parts are called, including the words "penis", "vagina", "vulva" and "testicles"; the horror! Little kids will know what a penis is called! Grade 3 students really will learn about gender identity and homosexuality in the context of learning "ways of showing respect for differences in others". Grade 4 students will learn that (surprise!) puberty really happens, and when it does boys and girls start thinking about other boys and girls in a little different way. They'll learn that after puberty begins "Some people start 'liking' others. They want to be more than 'just friends' and become interested in going out." Grade 6 students will learn "Things like wet dreams or vaginal lubrication are normal and happen as a result of physical changes with puberty. Exploring one's body by touching or masturbating is something that many people do and find pleasurable. It is common and is not harmful and is one way of learning about your body."


    Perhaps you will find solace, dear American brothers and sisters, that there are religious dingbats in other countries who believe sexual education is bad. They're not confined to your shores.
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