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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not really sure whether you were referring to me or her or whoever, but don't garble my words if you were referring to them. When I read her opinion, it did not sound like she wanted to die if she had the choice; it sounds like she just hates the idea of the suffering that comes with chemo and hates the idea of someone telling her what to do.

    Which is basically what I said the first time.

    To be honest, at risk of sounding like a jerk, I thought her opinion sounded like a typical teenage, "I'm my own person and all grown up, don't tell me what to do," scree. [I was a teenager once, and I've raised three, so I'm familiar with the attitude.] And yes, she is a teenager, so I guess that's appropriate in some ways; at the same time, I felt like it lacked a larger perspective and with maybe another five years of living under her belt, she might end up with a different view.



    What do you think those duties are and on what basis do they exist?

    (I'm not challenging you, I'm just asking for clarification so I properly understand.)
    I think that's most likely to be the case, although I think there's something wrong when the assertive thing to do in this context is rage for the right to die, its kind of a "I know when I'm beat" sort of thing and I think that's bizarre that this kind of thing IS what people want on the one hand and some how considered progressive, libertarian etc. on the other.

    The whole unsophisticated, pretty much unthought out, let them do it, their own choice, everyones free to make their own choice circular logic bugs me.

    There's a great deal of people who carry that party line like a virus and I think are unaware of its implications, unconcious and ignorant, and somehow I actually think that's worse than the creeps who advocate it in full awareness of what they are doing and who is likely to suffer as a consequence.

  2. #22
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Man, screw reporters and media getting involved in this whole thing. Kid and family's got enough going as it is.

    The question is more general than "Does a 17-year-old have the right to choose?" It's actually -- "Who has the right to choose for the 17-year-old?" Candidates in this case seem to be the parents, the courts, and the 17-year-old herself. I'd say the parents have the right until she's an adult, then she has the choice after that. In the interim, parents should really take their kid's concerns to heart.

    I don't understand force-feeding any sort of treatment. "It's an easily treatable thing" isn't much of an excuse. Where's the cutoff: 85% success rate? 50%? 1%? Why is the whole discussion framed in terms of survival rate anyway?
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  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Weird, I never wanted to die. Not saying you're wrong; my whole life has been unusual in many respects, so maybe I skipped this particular phase and so never thought to press my friends about it.
    I was praying for death throughout 8th and 9th grade.....but then, I'm mentally ill, so its hopefully not representative.

    As for the OP: She's still legally a child, so by legal definition she lacks capacity to make this type of decision for herself....and I'm fine with that, because teenagers are, generally speaking, dumbasses. I'm too tired to give a more nuanced opinion than that, right now.
    Likes Passacaglia liked this post

  4. #24
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReadingRainbows View Post
    Teenagers actually think with their hippocampus instead of their frontal lobes. The hippocampus is in charge of fight or flight rationals and impulse behavior.
    Out of curiosity, do you know when the typical person starts relying on their frontal lobes rather than their hippocampus?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Out of curiosity, do you know when the typical person starts relying on their frontal lobes rather than their hippocampus?
    I believe it is debated, but around 25 or older is when the brain is considered to be fully developed.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think that's most likely to be the case, although I think there's something wrong when the assertive thing to do in this context is rage for the right to die, its kind of a "I know when I'm beat" sort of thing and I think that's bizarre that this kind of thing IS what people want on the one hand and some how considered progressive, libertarian etc. on the other.
    You think that some terminally ill patients wanting to die on their own terms is bizarre, or that the 'right to die' opinion being a plank of some political parties is bizarre? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The whole unsophisticated, pretty much unthought out, let them do it, their own choice, everyones free to make their own choice circular logic bugs me.

    There's a great deal of people who carry that party line like a virus and I think are unaware of its implications, unconcious and ignorant, and somehow I actually think that's worse than the creeps who advocate it in full awareness of what they are doing and who is likely to suffer as a consequence.
    Are you talking about this particular Connecticut case, or about the 'right to die' opinion in general?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    You think that some terminally ill patients wanting to die on their own terms is bizarre, or that the 'right to die' is a plank of some political parties? Or both?


    Are you talking about this particular Connecticut case, or about the 'right to die' opinion in general?
    I dont think suicide is something anyone in their right mind would contemplate or desire, that its becoming a plank of political parties bothers me, yeah, I think that people should want to try to live, to make the most of life etc. not find the quickest exit.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReadingRainbows View Post
    I believe it is debated, but around 25 or older is when the brain is considered to be fully developed.
    Holy moly! 25?! That's practically middle-aged, by most of human history's standards!

    (Not doubting you or this science, btw, I'm just amazed. )

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    Holy moly! 25?! That's practically middle-aged, by most of human history's standards!

    (Not doubting you or this science, btw, I'm just amazed. )
    No, yeah it was very interesting when I first found out about it. Think about how the massive alcohol consumption on college campuses is affecting this.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think suicide is something anyone in their right mind would contemplate or desire, that its becoming a plank of political parties bothers me, yeah, I think that people should want to try to live, to make the most of life etc. not find the quickest exit.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I can assure you that a great many people think that your attitude is unsophisticated, ill-conceived, unconscious, ignorant, based on circular logic, and that you ought to think through its implications. But hey, I'm sure that your ideology is the right one.

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