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  1. #71
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post

    I don't know what their game plan is. English are known to have been strategic long term plannera by the people living under the empire. But now?
    Oh Riva don't believe cultural myths. Regardless of cultural trappings and surface dress the basic patterns of behaviour are the same in human beings across countries. Most people now are just trying to live in a world that they claim got smaller, when really all that happened was they became more aware of it and are bombarded by (usually) hyperbolic media reports. This is especially true in England and if you want to know what long term plans any political class wants in this country, merely watch the series "The Thick of It", a satire maybe but a very accurate one.

    The plan is to attach oneself to existence for as long as possible like a limpet on Britain's political system, which like many others is more about holding position than actually holding to your promises. As for multicultural integration, this is such a convoluted area where to start? For one the introduction of foods, clothes and other material goods from other countries could be considered a success of multiculturalism, but at the same time the integration of different values is an objective that appears almost designed to fail.

    OF COURSE!



    I'm not saying people need to hold the same values either, but this happens because at some point different views conflict and people can get very emotionally attached to their views; to the point of rabid idealism. To me there are very few clear answers which don't involve one group losing out in some fashion. But I don't believe there are overarching conspiracies to homogenise, merely hundreds of different influences that are usually self-serving but affect whole swathes of a population. Now I do believe that everything we do is ultimately driven selfishly, but I don't think that is such a bad thing. Our group selfishness can meet selflessness coming the other way if we can agree for 5 minutes on a course of action or thought.

    This is where tolerance comes in, tolerance allows someone to put up with something that they don't necessarily like or accept. But with a value this doesn't work, because it informs the actions of the individual (especially if it is held as an ideal) and when it translates into action then you get real conflict with physically harmful results.

    But I suppose really, the problem is also massively compounded by unbalanced people who cannot accept an opposing view without violence and then sometimes it's the excuse for violence, or the pretext for gaining power...etc..

    These harmful motivations, when enacted, cause such an outrage of fear and anger, that all rationality is thrown out in favour of reactionary disciplines or actions. It's hard to pick apart because the world keeps getting more and more variables of people with different motivations and there is no 'correct' aim. But there are those that harm others and have negative repercussions for our entire species. Self-destruction...awwww yeah!

    Wearing different clothes, practicing different religions and cultural habits are fine....up until they become demanding or pressurising on the cultural practices of others. And there are lots of blurring lines in between, where one group said ok and another said "no we're not acceding to that". Add simple bloody-mindedness and hatred to the mix and you've got a nice emotional bomb on your hands. And culture is....more of a notion in patterns of a particular region than anything else, it's the history of the humans in that area, or moving to it. But people forget that those cultural traits they find so immovable, so indestructible, were once either non-existent or have evolved from a different set of cultural traits which may be unrecognisable to the present culture and these are changing...all....the...time. It also gives people an identity, for those who find forging your own an uncomfortable or unwelcome thought.

    But people do all kinds of things under the heading of a particular culture or tradition that in fact have little to fuck all to do with that culture or tradition when analysed or examined. It's a big spaghetti-monster mess and that's what we have to untangle.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #72
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The price we pay for multiculturalism in Australia is that it is illegal to publish Charlie Hebdo in Australia.

    Is this the price you want to pay too?

  3. #73
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The price we pay for multiculturalism in Australia is that it is illegal to publish Charlie Hebdo in Australia.

    Is this the price you want to pay too?
    The ban should work both ways.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    You haven't even attempted to answer my points here.
    No, I did, you didnt like what I had to say, which is different.

    OK, so you have no evidence to support your view. Thanks.
    None that you'd accept, I've engaged in discussions before with people such as yourself and I know when to cut my losses, its fruitless to try and discuss something with someone whose mind is already made up and for whom its just a matter of attempting to refine their arguments or playing a game.

    The irony in this post is delicious. You call me ignorant, then proceed to make a whole host of assumptions about my character and commit numerous fallacies.
    Yeah, I can see you've put quite a bit of thought into those and maintaining them.

    Well, for my part I hope this is some sort of a stage you're going through and you'll grow out of it and find these posts as embarrassing as any normal person would.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #76
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #77
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Interview of Robert Crumb:

    Legendary Cartoonist Robert Crumb on the Massacre in Paris | New York Observer

    And the interview of Luz, one of the survivors of Charlie Hebdo:

    Les Inrocks - Luz : "All eyes are on us, we’ve become a symbol"

    "We are being made to carry a symbolic responsibility that doesn’t figure in Charlie’s cartoons. Unlike the Anglo-Saxons or Plantu, Charlie fights against symbolism. Doves of peace and other metaphors of a world at war aren’t our cup of tea. We work on details, specific points in correlation with French humour and our way of analyzing things à la française."
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #78
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I was simply pointing out your MO to someone who clearly doesn't know.
    That is dangerous. I got an infraction for it the last time I did it.

  9. #79
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    The (official) Anglo-Saxon world seems to have a very different concept of Freedom of speech than in Continental Europe.

    It's where you can spot the differences. In Germany, in Spain, in Netherlands... this concept seems to be more or less the same than in France.

    But in Britain or in the US...

    Look at this:



    Sky News has brutally interrupted an interview with a friend of mine, Caroline Fourest. And has even dared to present apologies to "Muslims who would feel offended" by the sight of the simple cartoon Caroline dared to show (actually, the current cover of Charlie Hebdo).

    What is happening within the Anglo-Saxon world ?

    RELIGIOUS HYPOCRISY ???

    Freedom of speech cannot be complete without the simple right to blaspheme.

    Richard Dawkins, where are you now ? We neeeed you !
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #80
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    The (official) Anglo-Saxon world seems to have a very different concept of Freedom of speech than in Continental Europe.

    It's where you can spot the differences. In Germany, in Spain, in Netherlands... this concept seems to be more or less the same than in France.

    But in Britain or in the US...

    Look at this:



    Sky News has brutally interrupted an interview with a friend of mine, Caroline Fourest. And has even dared to present apologies to "Muslims who would feel offended" by the sight of the simple cartoon Caroline dared to show (actually, the current cover of Charlie Hebdo).

    What is happening within the Anglo-Saxon world ?

    RELIGIOUS HYPOCRISY ???

    Freedom of speech cannot be complete without the simple right to blaspheme.

    Richard Dawkins, where are you now ? We neeeed you !
    Not only Britain and the USA but also Australia, for we have received advice from our Discrimination Commissioner, Dr Tim Soutphommasane, that it is illegal to publish Charlie Hebdo in Australia.

    We recently debated whether we should keep Section 81 which forbids offensive speech. And those who were against offensive speech won they day. But who were they? They were ethnic groups, church groups, and the Left - all opposed to free speech, only of course from the highest motives.

    But these groups are not alone, only today Pope Francis came out against free speech, again only from the highest motives.

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