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  1. #51
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    On a similar tone, I'm wondering why NO newspapers in America dared to publish even ONE cartoon of Charlie Hebdo.

    Everywhere else, there is a debate. In Germany, In England, in Spain, in Africa... even a Jesuit review (officially sponsored by the Vatican himself) dared to do it to make us understand what "freedom of speech" and "democracy" means. But not within the US. Shame!

    Is it RELIGIOUS HYPOCRISY? Or worst, religious bigotry?
    Does that mean that religious people in America remain that powerful, and that blasphemy is still widely perceived as an horrible Sin??

    We French should be thankful for both George Clooney and Arnold Schwartzenegger who, while sitting at two different sides of the political spectrum, agreed to show their support in public.

    -----

    In France, we have another saying about Freedom of Speech, and it is the current motto of perhaps our most famous weekly, the "Canard Enchaîné" [ Le Canard encha ]. And it is very important.

    "La liberté de la presse ne s'use que quand l'on ne s'en sert pas".

    It could be translated this way : "The only way to use up your freedom is never to use it".
    That's why, for instance, I concluded so easily that the cartoon of Joe Sacco posted by Qre:us was in fact a sanctimonious leftist bullshit [I'm a Lefty myself, therefore I think I can recognize a leftist bullshit when I face one; this is called self-criticism], and that Sacco was entirely missing the point of satire and being irreverent.
    From Paris where I stand, I am under the impression that the US are now ruled by a kind of religious political correctness.
    Thus I will publish some of these caricatures here, with the hope that they won't be censored. It will be a kind of test. And keep in mind that people have died because of them. When he eventually faced the terrorists armed with rifles, the last gesture of Charb before being shot was a "bras d'honneur" [ Bras d'honneur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ].
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 01-13-2015 at 06:23 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #52
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    First, the last one ever published by the team, 20 minutes before they were killed.

    It pictures Al Baghdadi, the current "Caliph" of ISIL giving his best wishes to everybody for 2015, "and especially a good health", says the cartoon.



    Premonitory, isn't it?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #53
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Then, the cartoon that allegedly "offended" Muslims when it was first published in 2006:



    You can read :

    Muhammad overwhelmed by fundamentalists : "It's hard to be adored by assholes"


    You can notice here that fundamentalists don't share any sense of second degree. This cartoon is not racist, it is directed solely against bigots and fundies. True Muslims would, in fact, probably agree with the general message when they now discover, horrified, what ISIL is doing every day. Here, the Prophet is depicted as being a nice and decent man horrified by what Islamists were doing in his name. But still, the offense was considered to be worth several death threats.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #54
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Similarily, this other cartoon:



    It reads as follow:

    If ever Muhammad would come back:

    "I'm the Prophet, stupid!
    -Shut-up, you Infidel!"

    -----

    Once again, Muhammad is depicted as being a decent man who would probably oppose what ISIL is currently doing. But once again : DEATH THREATS!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #55
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Even Art Spiegelman has denounced the hypocrisy of US Media, especially when the New York Times seems to think these cartoons were "insults" rather than satire, to justify the fact that they would not dare to publish them.



    Mocking what he called the "mega-fanatic zeal to be polite" in the American press, Spiegelman said that Charlie Hebdo had not sought to hurt Muslims by publishing cartoons of Mohammed, pointing out that the paper printed caricatures of the Pope and orthodox Jews as well.

    "When religion overlaps with social and political issues, it's necessary to fight back, so Charlie is equally hard on Jews including anti-semitic caricatures and quotes when talking about Israel," he said.

    "The equal opportunity insult that came with Charlie Hebdo was the reason it's estimable."



    Read more: US press 'hypocrites' for not publishing Charlie Hebdo cartoons: Spiegelman - Business Insider
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #56
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    You're free to disagree with me about any of those things. One of the cultural customs I value the most is the freedom to dissent, especially on contentious political issues. This is antithetical to Fe-heavy ideologies like socialism and Islam. They are based around the idea that the state knows what is best for you, even though we're all unique people. Even the groups we belong to are varied and exclusive. The belief that everyone in the world can mix and live in peace may be charming, but it is nonetheless utterly delusional.

    Many people on your side of the fence think that I and people like me should be denied the right to speak our minds, organise rallies and form parties because you fear us and we offend your sense of morality. Screw you
    [insult removed] I never said or even thought that you don't have a right to speak your mind, organize rallies, and form parties. I was simply pointing out your MO to someone who clearly doesn't know.
    Last edited by Ivy; 01-12-2015 at 08:48 PM. Reason: removed insult
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    [insult removed]I never said or even thought that you don't have a right to speak your mind, organize rallies, and form parties. I was simply pointing out your MO to someone who clearly doesn't know.
    You have come onto a thread, immediately attacked my character and contributed nothing whatsoever of value to the discussion. This is not the first time, either.

    There's a word for that behaviour - maybe you can look it up.
    Last edited by Ivy; 01-12-2015 at 08:51 PM. Reason: removed quoted insult

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I did my research, including reading the psych profile of sad bastards like Brevik and realising that they are not enviable, they are not intellectual and they have nothing what so ever to offer anyone.
    You haven't even attempted to answer my points here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its not my mission in life to waste time reinforcing the views of bigots with the counter arguments which lead them to mistakenly believe they could be on to something after all. The information is out there to more than answer any of your rhetorical questions, especially the obvious ones like this one.
    OK, so you have no evidence to support your view. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well maybe your aversion to violence could become an aversion to ignorance and we'll all be done a favour, I think immigrants make you uneasy because they play that part in your ideology, I'll bet its a particular sort of immigrant, not the white, english speaking, french speaking, german speaking, maybe not even the spanish speaking or italian speaking, christians etc.

    The rants about multiculturalism are so, so, so old, what is the problem are inflexible, totalitarian, monocultures lining up against one another and preparing for war with legions of useful idiots flocking to their cause like lemmings. Plenty of historical precident for that.

    Here's a clue, these sorts of chauvinistic creedos, the monsterous creeds that lead to monsterous deeds, they dont appeal to people who arent afraid or angry but they're less likely to appeal to anyone who has been historically treated as one of the "suspect communities" like a roman catholic in NI. Like the bible says remember the foreigner, for you too were foreigners in Egypt.
    The irony in this post is delicious. You call me ignorant, then proceed to make a whole host of assumptions about my character and commit numerous fallacies.

  10. #60
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velveteen
    you're absolutely wrong and should be ashamed of yourself for making such narrow-minded shit up and presenting it like it's some sort of objective truth to equally bigoted outsiders.
    Wrong about what? What exactly did I make up? It is a fact that Swedish society has changed as a result of the influx of muslim immigrants. I'm familiar with some of the negative aspects of this demographic change; if there are any positives, do share.

    1 in 4 Swedish Women Will Be Raped as Sexual Assaults Increase 500%

    With Muslims represented in as many as 77 percent of the rape cases and a major increase in rape cases paralleling a major increase in Muslim immigration, the wages of Muslim immigration are proving to be a sexual assault epidemic by a misogynistic ideology.
    Also, in France, muslims comprise about 8 to 10% of the population but represent 60% of the criminal population.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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