User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 20

  1. #1
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,597

    Default Women in Islam and Related Cultures

    On the thread about Islamic Terror in Australia, the discussion has taken a turn toward the situation of women in Islam, and in Arab, Persian, and other cultures where Islam is practiced widely or exclusively. The (good) suggestion was made to start a new thread for this. To read the background in the original thread, start at post 102.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Hard liked this post

  2. #2
    Member Eska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    34

    Default

    For those who aren't willing to read through that thread or want to start the discussion anew, what are the main positions being argued? What is each side's main point?

  3. #3
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    848

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yes I agree with you and @Coriolis both about the "modesty" that actually impedes the woman's daily life (how much can you really do with your face covered like that and isn't black HOT in desert climates, thereby encouraging the woman to stay indoors? ?? I have lived in the desert in Nevada and in the Mediterranean climate of Los Angeles and I certainly don't want to be covered head to toe in black outdoors in the greater part of the year, though there are cooler months in the winter).
    I think originally dressing head-to-toe in black in the desert is protect your skin from the harsh sun since they didn't have sunscreen back then. There is never a need to cover the face whether for the foolish idea of modesty or use as religious symbol.


    I think hijab is fine, it can even be pretty if the woman likes to be somewhat fashionable, but the problem is with that kind of modesty that is so extreme simply becomes the opposite of our increasingly pornographic culture.
    Definitely.


    In Western culture I actually do think certain things have gone too far, like women are actually giving away things for free that they should not, I don't mean by dressing sexy, but wearing outfits that are degrading in their lack of coverage in public and to a point of it bring impractical (I'm a feminist, but to repeat my earlier point, it's hard to run away in heels, it's difficult to be equal when you actively incapacitated yourself with "fashion" that used to be a conceit of the idle rich, there are clothes that just aren't practical for doing anything physical and certainly I have a problem with PUA, an off shoot of this extreme immodesty, that basically demands women be free prostitutes, as in used like prostitutes but not paid)....and the other extreme of modesty that impedes women's activity, and also tends to create weird fetishes, ankles and knees may become sexualized, women may be called whores for showing neck, back or calves, there has to be a happy medium that's more ...normal.
    Of course, you need to strive for a happy medium whether it's a religious symbol or a focus on modesty (or both), it's asinine to let it affect your daily life. I think oppression and regressive cultures (Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Oman, Libya) are to be blamed because anyone with a slight understanding of Arabic or ability to yield logic will realise this (and that Islam emphasises practicality even if the Quran is indecipherable for the most part). Now what was put in place for practicality back then may not apply these days (for instance there's no need for men to keep full custody the children in divorce if the woman can provide equal financial support, women also won't need a dowry if they're employed*).

    As for oppression, do you know women aren't even allowed to eat whilst walking in public in Iraq? My friend said she could barely walk down a street without having lurid comments thrown at her. Of course, little is done to control the men and women are encouraged to cover up more and more. WTF happened? I have photos of my mother in the 60s dressed in knee-length boots and miniskirts surrounded by her friends in similar fashionable attire of the 60's and she didn't come from a progressive family, just the typical middle-class family. It wasn't ideal but it was on par with the progress of developed countries.

    This is does not even scratch the surface of the discriminatory differences between men and women and the punishment of women through honour killings. Or Saudi Arabia, with all that wealth, you'd think it'd lead to some progression but they're more regressive.

    I will have more to add, I'm just starting it off.



    * I've also read that this the purpose behind polygamy is to support multiple women financially. There's no purpose to polygamy these days as women can work and support themselves. Of course some people twist this to suit themselves but that was the initial reasoning behind it.

  4. #4
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    848

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eska View Post
    For those who aren't willing to read through that thread or want to start the discussion anew, what are the main positions being argued? What is each side's main point?
    Let me simplify it for you:



    Do you think these women are oppressed? Is there a logical reason to being this covered?

  5. #5
    Member Eska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Let me simplify it for you:

    [IMG]http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200908/r421678_2004213.jpg[IMG]

    Do you think these women are oppressed? Is there a logical reason to being this covered?
    Whether they're oppressed or not, is a matter of perspective based on religious beliefs, values and the traditions of where they reside.

    There are some logical reasons to be covered like this and there are advantages that come along with it, according to some of their views,

    Muslim women reveal why they wear the veil - burqa school debate - Telegraph

    "I feel like men respect me more"

    "When I'm wearing a hijab it's much easier not to care when I'm getting leered at because what exactly is he looking at? My face?"

    "The biggest benefit that I enjoy by wearing [the hijab] is that people deal with me as an individual and not just according to my looks."

    __

    Although, wearing it for it's advantages and disadvantages do not validate whether it's oppression or not.

    How it's imposed validates whether it's oppression or not.

    If a woman would gets sentenced (kill/prison/etc.) for not wearing the burqa, that is oppression.

    Basically, if a woman is threatened and forced to wear the burqa, that is oppression.

    If they had the free choice and decided to wear it because of some of the advantages listed above, would you say that it's oppression?

    Do I agree with the wear of the burqa? I'm indifferent.
    Do I like it? No.

    This caricature expresses what I mean by "a matter of perspective".



    ___

    We technically are oppressed, on a daily basis, on a multitude of things. (Not being naked in public/not killing/etc.)

    I don't know much about the Islamic rulings, although, if a woman is threatened to wear that, then, from a westernized society's perspective, that would qualify as being oppressed.

  6. #6
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    784

    Default

    I think it's cultural, not religious. The burka is not sanctioned in the Quran.
    Good result (vs. Soton)...still have to go #Arsene

    Tengo los conocimientos estardiar....no hay un motivo para estar al tanto de la reunión que sucedió hace mucho tiempo ....

  7. #7
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #8
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Let me simplify it for you:

    Do you think these women are oppressed? Is there a logical reason to being this covered?
    The unfortunate proliferation of surveillance cameras.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #9
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    I know three young girls (early 20s) who are from all from Islamic Nations (2 from Kuwait or Saudi and one from Pakistan) all living in my country.

    None of them wear Burqas or veils. Infact they wear beautiful stylish clothes (I am sometimes puzzled as to where they get their clothes from) out of some of these are knee length skirts. I have seen one of them in a bikinis too (bikini top and swimming trousers).

    Even their mothers don't wear veils whereas when they (mothers) were living in their Islamic nations they were wearing them.

    I also know a few girls who are from my country who don't live in Islamic communities in my country that don't wear the veil.

    The moral of the story: wear the veil or get condemned by your society; because if you want to fit into your community you have to show that you are a good religious girl and the easiest way to show that is to wear a veil.
    .

  10. #10
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    ^ That's in Islamic communities; other communities dominated by males and religions have other methods of making women fit in/show that they are good girls.

    Edit -

    I have mentioned this before, Islam has its religion, culture and law all mixed up together. I am not certain whether it was Mohomed's intention but that is how it turned out to be maybe only after 100 years of his death.

    Now anyone who doesn't respect their culture or living according to their cultural norms (covering the head or face or whatever) is not respecting their religion; and anyone who doesn't respect or living according to their laws (sharia) is not respecting their religion. This is where the huge issue of Islam is. This is why religious fundamentalist of Islam can't integrate into others' societies and this is why they don't allow their adherents to integrate into other societies, because if they do, that means they don't respect Islam and the God of Islam.

    And this is why Islamic adherents are having issues all around the world, because they can't integrate, they aren't allowed to integrate.

    However, in the past this brutal suppressive dogma helped them spread their religion and prevented their adherents from listening to other realities. However, their sword isn't powerful as it used to be, going around killing people and force converting them isn't considered great anymore and the rest of the world is too far into the 21st century to accept intimidation by a God mentioned in a book.
    .

Similar Threads

  1. Smiling in Pictures and MBTI Type
    By thirtyfour in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 03-08-2011, 11:08 PM
  2. Observer's Descriptions of the Four Dichotomies in Men and Women
    By Seymour in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 06-15-2010, 11:02 PM
  3. Seeking help from people in Biology and related fields/majors
    By ygolo in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-25-2009, 02:44 AM
  4. The difference of the N and the S mind in Art and Music
    By wildcat in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-11-2007, 02:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO