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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I like some of Haidt's perspectives and dislike some of them, if its the person I'm thinking of they wrote the Righteous Mind and have a couple of Ted Talks about were morality comes from for liberals and conservatives.

    I think he exhibits certain sorts of liberal bias but he's upfront about that too I guess, I think that he exhibits some US cultural bias too though, in the US conservatives wouldnt support gay marriage, in the UK they among the greatest supporters, they formed a coalition and part of the purpose appears to have been to form an ersatz same sex couple, in the US liberals wouldnt support fiscal libertarianism but in the UK the liberal party is solidly behind some really tea party-esque ideas about taxation and spending cuts. Those things wouldnt make sense to his paradigms about morality and political camps.
    I'm pretty sure Haidt is fully aware of the fact that American conservatism and liberalism don't line up with their counterparts in Europe. I've heard him make explicit statements attesting to that. He might focus on American problems because he is an American, but that is not the same thing.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Ideally, all sorts of political ideology should be excluded from academics.

    'bla bla because privilege' -> stfu stupid liberal
    'bla bla law-abiding' -> stfu stupid conservative

    Ideology = bias

    Good science = unbiased
    Social Justice Warriors and Neocons/evangelicals aren't the sole cause of our poor public discourse problem, but they're a big part of it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."
    Likes Hard liked this post

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Social Justice Warriors and Neocons/evangelicals aren't the sole cause of our poor public discourse problem, but they're a big part of it.
    The difference is that universities control the future.

  4. #24
    Junior Member devaf's Avatar
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    @DiscoBiscuit
    Jonathan Haidt has a new paper out and it sure is a doozy.
    I finished reading it last night, and it really blew my hair back.
    Please rephrase this in plain (non-idiommatic) English. Even after an internet search I am left unsure of what you mean. It is a very interesting topic to be introduced to, reading up on basics here...

    Thanks
    “By our stumbling, the world is perfected.”
    ― Sri Aurobindo

  5. #25
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devaf View Post
    @DiscoBiscuit


    Please rephrase this in plain (non-idiommatic) English. Even after an internet search I am left unsure of what you mean. It is a very interesting topic to be introduced to, reading up on basics here...

    Thanks
    Paraphrase: "Jonathan Haidt has a new paper out and it is [extraordinary]. I finished reading it last night, and it [amazed me]." The connotations aren't the same, but that's approximately the literal meaning (DB can correct me if he disagrees).

    I like Haidt a lot (I read The Righteous Mind a while back and posted on it).

    I'd agree that many endeavors would be better served with a mix of liberals and conservatives. Some of the current political woes in the US are, I think, the result of the political parties being too well sorted. Without a leavening of liberals, conservatives become fiercely in-groupish and suffer from epistemological closure. Liberals suffer from a lack of decisiveness, a lack of group cohesion, and a lack of understanding of what really motivates people and changes minds (hint: it's not just information and logic).

    Liberals use a narrower range of moral reasoning (primarily the harm/care scale and, to a lesser degree fairness and liberty) than conservatives. Liberals also tend to have higher Openness, which means they are both open to new ideas (on the one hand), but may be too enamored of change in general. Conservatives have a wider range of moral reasoning, where harm/care, for example, may be overridden by other factors (the scales the liberals use, plus loyalty, authority, and sanctity).

    At any rate, I do think a mixture of folks can lead to better and more complete solutions to problems. It's important that studies can investigate politically unpopular (but not downright immoral) approaches. Otherwise, it may just reinforce the political opinions of the researches.

    Having grown up as a fledging liberal in conservative Texas, I do know what it's like to be odd guy out at work (and in my family of origin). It's one reason I try to stick up for conservatives and Southerners now that I live in liberal Boston. While I disagree with many conservative policies (especially now that it seems that the Republican party has gone off the rails), I still think we're better off treating each other as human beings who are entitled to their own beliefs. It seems like any deep understanding requires living and working side by side, and political sorting (both by party and geographically) is undermining that here in the US.

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