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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    LOL!!!!

    Special pleading on top of everything else? I'll turn you out, yet.
    Sometimes one misses face to face interaction.

    I would like to interact.

    I sure hope you have something better to do with your time than bothering me for personal enjoyment.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Sometimes one misses face to face interaction.

    I would like to interact.
    Knuckles trump words, does it?

    Thanks for answering my previously unanswered question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Why do you think "liberals" got such a strong-hold in academia in the first place?
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You're clearly desperate to tell me what you think on the subject so go ahead.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Knuckles trump words, does it?

    Thanks for answering my previously unanswered question:
    No I don't think you'd be this much of a **** in person.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And now with the power of ignore I can carry on the thread.
    Likes SD45T-2 liked this post

  4. #14
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Another article looking at Dr. Haidt's thesis (which is not very new, btw):

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/sc...tier.html?_r=0


    ...where, indeed, it is identified that he calls for affirmative action goals.

    A few even endorsed his call for a new affirmative-action goal: a membership that’s 10 percent conservative by 2020. The society’s executive committee didn’t endorse Dr. Haidt’s numerical goal, but it did vote to put a statement on the group’s home page welcoming psychologists with “diverse perspectives.” It also made a change on the “Diversity Initiatives” page — a two-letter correction of what it called a grammatical glitch, although others might see it as more of a Freudian slip.
    I didn't even have to initially read the pdf of 53 pages, when I made my off-the-cuff initial post, to know that one of the recommendations would be this, as it is a logical recommendation, but it's good to have it in plain words, clearly outlined (for those who are tortured to admit the existence of such a recommendation, lest it be used against them for other arguments).

    I think it is interesting that conservatives are so reticent when it comes to admitting the existence of discrimination of minorities, and resisting recommended measures for countering them, but when it is found to be in their favour, the tune changes on a whim.

    Findings by Dr. Haidt (who, by the way, is not a liberal but a centrist)

    Is it a problem? Sure.

    If the ideal of scientific inquiry is upheld, is this a non-issue? Yes. One shouldn't need to be a liberal to investigate facts, and present what the findings are telling them. Whether it favours their ideology or not. Scientific integrity. Otherwise, the whole of scientific inquiry/evidence-based inquiry and the scientific methodology is called into question.

    Does the ideal match reality? No, as academia is rife with politics.

    Should measures be taken to counteract this? Sure. It seems the Society for Personality and Social Psychology has considered Dr. Haidt's recommendations and are attempting to take actions that align with those recommendations.

    For a tribal-moral community, the social psychologists in Dr. Haidt’s audience seemed refreshingly receptive to his argument. Some said he overstated how liberal the field is, but many agreed it should welcome more ideological diversity. A few even endorsed his call for a new affirmative-action goal: a membership that’s 10 percent conservative by 2020. The society’s executive committee didn’t endorse Dr. Haidt’s numerical goal, but it did vote to put a statement on the group’s home page welcoming psychologists with “diverse perspectives.” It also made a change on the “Diversity Initiatives” page — a two-letter correction of what it called a grammatical glitch, although others might see it as more of a Freudian slip.

    In the old version, the society announced that special funds to pay for travel to the annual meeting were available to students belonging to “underrepresented groups (i.e., ethnic or racial minorities, first-generation college students, individuals with a physical disability, and/or lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered students).”

    As Dr. Haidt noted in his speech, the “i.e.” implied that this was the exclusive, sacred list of “underrepresented groups.” The society took his suggestion to substitute “e.g.” — a change that leaves it open to other groups, too. Maybe, someday, even to conservatives.
    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/sc...tier.html?_r=0 (2011)

  5. #15
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    It's almost as if a tree fell in the forest and no one heard it.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And now with the power of ignore I can carry on the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It's almost as if a tree fell in the forest and no one heard it.
    That didn't last long. You're on fire!



    When you ask for "thoughts", next time you should clearly state that it must be aligned with your view, no dissension allowed. Otherwise, it makes you disingenuous. Nothing new, though.

    I'll go back to talking to "myself".

  7. #17

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    I like some of Haidt's perspectives and dislike some of them, if its the person I'm thinking of they wrote the Righteous Mind and have a couple of Ted Talks about were morality comes from for liberals and conservatives.

    I think he exhibits certain sorts of liberal bias but he's upfront about that too I guess, I think that he exhibits some US cultural bias too though, in the US conservatives wouldnt support gay marriage, in the UK they among the greatest supporters, they formed a coalition and part of the purpose appears to have been to form an ersatz same sex couple, in the US liberals wouldnt support fiscal libertarianism but in the UK the liberal party is solidly behind some really tea party-esque ideas about taxation and spending cuts. Those things wouldnt make sense to his paradigms about morality and political camps.

    Older theorists who talked about cultural conservatives, fiscal socialists, political liberals, possibly all three in a single person, were better, but that's all prior to the neo-con and myriad conservatives thing which happened a while back. All coalescing into Bush co.

    Why does it all matter? Well it kind of comes back to what my original response was, what is meant by diversity? What does the word connote? To what extent is it consciously suggested but unconsciously rebuked or rejected?

    Like I've said before some people champion diversity but they want an agreeable diversity, a manageable one, people are free to agree provided they know they are on notice from the point they do, people who prove to be disagreeable will be silenced, maybe not by the law, but one way or another its going to happen, and when it does it'll be spun as ultimately all being for the good of diversity in the first place.

    I see it on the big topics or contentious topics, I listened to a superb philosophy bites interview on the topic of legislating homosexual unions as marriages today, the guy speaking was very erudite, intellectual and engaging, made brilliant arguments, which I disagreed with but which thought were better than any I had heard to date and considered persuasive but towards the end of the interview the cracks were showing and he sounded simply to be angry, which was a shame.

    People seem to be alright until the correct series of keywords are punched in and its like a launch code. These change over time but its the same old process. The long view on this should change it but it doesnt, like no one would understand why people cut their neighbours throats over transubstantiation but it happened.

    For my own part, I'm secure enough in my opinions and thinking, I appreciate diversity, I even like disagreement, disparity, disputation and, yeah, even (managed, limited, moderated) conflict, hostility doesnt bother me and I prefer open, honest hostility to secret some sort of devious, repressed rage. It all makes for discussion. It can even compell people to think harder about their own views. Some people they just collapse into emoting and I predict that'll be the fate of any (disagreeable) diversity but you know.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That didn't last long. You're on fire!



    When you ask for "thoughts", next time you should clearly state that it must be aligned with your view, no dissension allowed. Otherwise, it makes you disingenuous. Nothing new, though.

    I'll go back to talking to "myself".
    And this is exactly what I would predict will be the fate of the "diversity" being talked about.

    Its different on the left and the right but the same trigger men and trigger keywords and events will arise and then its launch code time, Def Con One.

  9. #19
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Ideally, all sorts of political ideology should be excluded from academics.

    'bla bla because privilege' -> stfu stupid liberal
    'bla bla law-abiding' -> stfu stupid conservative

    Ideology = bias

    Good science = unbiased

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks for posting this Disco, it is really refreshing to see a perspective like this.

    Liberal academics are among the most insular, closed-minded people I've ever met, and can be as bad as fundamentalist Christians. Their behaviour is even more objectionable because they believe they are tolerant and enlightened. In fact I'll go further: I believe universities are among the most highly censored environments in the Western world. Every time I am asked to fill out a survey on (dis)satisfaction with the campus environment, this is the main criticism I give. Staff inject their own political views into their lectures in not-so-subtle ways, and conservative student groups are harassed if they exist at all.

    It is especially difficult to have a honest discussion about race and immigration with a liberal, but it's hard to sit down and casually discuss any social issue over lunch really. IMO, nothing should be sacred, and the role of academia is to ask tough questions. Part of the problem is that far fewer conservatives than liberals are attracted to subjects like English and History in the first place. Conservative families and teens tend to be more S (and especially SJ) than average, and hence will not favour careers that involve a lot of abstract thinking.

    Affirmative action for conservative students would be the height of hypocrisy though. There must be other ways to address the imbalance.

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