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  1. #51
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you are saying ideologies should not judged on their practical consequences, they should be judged on the best-case theoretical scenario.

    In that case, let's bring back Soviet-style communism. The Soviets were just doing it wrong. I'm sure we can get it right this time.

    No practical consequence is important.

    However, you cannot judge Islam’s practical consequence by only looking at the bad examples and people who’re doing it wrong and neglecting all the faithful muslims!!
    This is an unfair and incorrect way of doing judging, I believe this happens when you make reasons out of personal apathy or other unrelated inaccurate things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The problem for us is that narcissists can't bear to face the reality of an international death cult.

    The death cult is growing and expanding and won't go away. And the narcissists can't and won't believe it, putting us all at risk.

    What if the reality isn’t what you think it is?
    I suggest you get more educated.
    Starting form the very basic things like arguments and opinion making.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  2. #52
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This is a bald faced lie, and not even a good one. Religion (of any kind) does not preclude someone from being intellectual, or render them unable to hold intellectual discussions. If this were the case, then we wouldn't have muslims with PhD's, MD's, etc.
    Religions don't prohibit intellectual thought, but in many cases religious institutions discourage or even punish it due to the insecurity, fear, or plain ambition of those in authority. Witness death threats on some contemporary Muslim authors whose writings meet with disapproval from conservative Muslims. Christianity has been no better, though. Even in the modern age, there is censorship of intellectual thought that crosses certain lines, though fortunately no one is burned at the stake any longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you are saying ideologies should not judged on their practical consequences, they should be judged on the best-case theoretical scenario.

    In that case, let's bring back Soviet-style communism. The Soviets were just doing it wrong. I'm sure we can get it right this time.
    People and institutions should be judged based on their practical consequences. An ideology is nothing without humans to put it into action. Political and economic systems are another matter.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #53
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This is a bald faced lie, and not even a good one. Religion (of any kind) does not preclude someone from being intellectual, or render them unable to hold intellectual discussions. If this were the case, then we wouldn't have muslims with PhD's, MD's, etc.
    This flies in the face of reality.

    About 1,000 years ago Islam decided itself to cut itself off from intellectual endeavour. And we see Islam did not experience the Renaissance, the Reformation, or the Enlightenment, liberal democracy, or modern science, and rejects the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia.

    And today science is not practised in Islamic countries. If a muslim wishes to practise science, they must go to a Western country.

    But even in Western countries, Islamic schools teach Creationism based on the Koran. And I am sure you know Creationism is anti-science.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle;2399067you cannot judge Islam’s practical consequence by [B
    only [/B]looking at the bad examples and people who’re doing it wrong and neglecting all the faithful muslims!!
    This is an unfair and incorrect way of doing judging, I believe this happens when you make reasons out of personal apathy or other unrelated inaccurate things
    Pew Polling shows that a conservative 20% of muslims throughout the world are in favour of imposing Sharia through terrorism.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    I suggest you get more educated.
    Starting form the very basic things like arguments and opinion making.
    The reality is that I am highly educated and I have been studying Islam for most of this century. I think the problem is that I know Islam too well.

    I understand Islamic propaganda and I can see that well meaning Westerners want to believe it, but the horrors of Islam keeping pressing upon us every day.

    Frankly, I suggest you study the works of Ayaam Hirsi Ali.

  6. #56
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Islamic Terror and Australian Resiliance

    Australians are resiliant in face of Islamic terror.

    Australians of every race and religion, have made a shrine of flowers in Martin Place, Sydney, for the victims of Islamic terror.

    Australians of every race and persuasion support each other against Islamic terror.

    Without support or encouragement from the Australian Government ordinary Australians have created a sea of flowers in Martin Place to remember the victims of Islamic terror.

    The Islamic terror sought to divide us, terrorise us and make us fearful, but rather, enmasse, we responded with grief and love.

    Click on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwjKbLNBjIQ

    and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTQj2p33syY

  7. #57
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    This flies in the face of reality.

    About 1,000 years ago Islam decided itself to cut itself off from intellectual endeavour. And we see Islam did not experience the Renaissance, the Reformation, or the Enlightenment, liberal democracy, or modern science, and rejects the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia.

    And today science is not practised in Islamic countries. If a muslim wishes to practise science, they must go to a Western country.

    But even in Western countries, Islamic schools teach Creationism based on the Koran. And I am sure you know Creationism is anti-science.
    No, it doesn't.

    You claimed those who practice islam are incapable of being intelligent and having intelligent discourse with others. I said this is completely false and if it weren't the case we wouldn't see those. Not having a renaissance or something similar does not mean a country or it's people are unintelligent. That simply what you want it to be.

    And actually, yes, science IS practiced in islamic countries. Islamic countries have many universities with science programs. They participate in research. Again, this is a bald faced lie. What you're arguing is that islam is not equivalent to the western world, that's it. That is a fair statement, but to extrapolate that to non-intelligence is slanderous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Religions don't prohibit intellectual thought, but in many cases religious institutions discourage or even punish it due to the insecurity, fear, or plain ambition of those in authority. Witness death threats on some contemporary Muslim authors whose writings meet with disapproval from conservative Muslims. Christianity has been no better, though. Even in the modern age, there is censorship of intellectual thought that crosses certain lines, though fortunately no one is burned at the stake any longer.
    Absolutely, I agree.
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  8. #58
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I understand Islamic propaganda and I can see that well meaning Westerners want to believe it, but the horrors of Islam keeping pressing upon us every day.

    Frankly, I suggest you study the works of Ayaam Hirsi Ali.
    I have. Her experience is a good illustration of how the violent and repressive elements that we associate with Islam are really cultural, and even predate Islam in the regions where they are practiced or at least originate. The Bible can be and has been used to generate Christian propaganda of a comparable nature.

    If there is a broader problem, it is the idea that we can use a book - the Quran, the Bible, or any so-called holy writing - as the exclusive and ultimate guide to God, morality, life, the universe, and everything. But this applies to all "religions of the book" and not just Islam. One's experience of such a religion depends highly on how the faithful and their leaders interpret that book, and responsibility for that rests squarely on people.

    For a humorous fictional account of what happens when a society relies on a book in this way, see:

    Chicago Mobs of the Twenties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    And actually, yes, science IS practiced in islamic countries. Islamic countries have many universities with science programs. They participate in research. Again, this is a bald faced lie. What you're arguing is that islam is not equivalent to the western world, that's it. That is a fair statement, but to extrapolate that to non-intelligence is slanderous.
    Moreover, the Islamic world continued to promote and develop science while the Christian world was in what we call the Dark Ages, preserving scientific and medical knowledge either lost to the west, or never developed there at all. I would agree that they are not living up to that heritage these days, any more than Christian societies are living up to their heritage as great patrons of the arts. Again, the problem is with humans and human institutions, not religious doctrine. That has obviously been used to allow and promote scientific and artistic development in regions following both faiths.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #59
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Statistically speaking, muslims are much more violent than most other religious groups that exist today. Have you ever heard of
    Wiccans, Baha'is, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, or Scientologists committing violence on the scale of muslims in the last 30 years? I haven't. Historically speaking, muslims have shed the most blood of any religion (~500 million killed by muslims, give or take a 100 million). Sure, most muslims aren't murderers, but then again, neither were most Nazis.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #60
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Statistically speaking, muslims are much more violent than most other religious groups that exist today. Have you ever heard of
    Wiccans, Baha'is, Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, or Scientologists committing violence on the scale of muslims in the last 30 years? I haven't. Historically speaking, muslims have shed the most blood of any religion (~500 million killed by muslims, give or take a 100 million). Sure, most muslims aren't murderers, but then again, neither were most Nazis.
    ~600 years ago, Christians weren't much better. That's about the age difference between the two religions. Moreover, some of these other religions oppress people in other ways that are not overtly violent, and therefore do not draw the publicity of a terrorist attack, whoever the culprit is.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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