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  1. #41
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I have a challenge for everybody on here who disagrees with my view: please show me how religious and/or racial diversity benefit a country.
    We don't need to. It is those who wish to restrict the free movement and intermingling of individuals who must demonstrate that diversity is harmful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I believe that a Patriot Act-esque response is inappropriate because it doesn't address the root cause of the problem. Politicians are too afraid to touch race.

    Whatever you may feel about isolationism, the alternative - what we have now - is much less stable. All other things being equal, are homogenous or heterogeneous societies more productive, more peaceful and more creative? There are some unfortunate realities I am happy to bring to your attention should you care to challenge me.
    Patriot Act responses are inappropriate because everything terrorists or other violent extremists do is already against the law in most places. We glorify terrorists and reward their desire for attention on the world stage when we treat the crimes they commit any differently than those committed by any other criminal.

    Isolation is as stable as a mast or a wing that cannot bend. Eventually, it just breaks and the results are far more catastrophic. By your reasoning, the U.S. would have been far more productive had Western Europeans stayed put and left our land to the indigenous peoples. That would apply to Australia and New Zealand as well. The indigenous folks might actually agree, though for different reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Under a more nationalistic system, or even, perhaps, one with the present attitude to economic migrants, he would never have been allowed into Australia. So in a way, multicultural attitudes to immigration are responsible for creating this and other, similar attacks. I also think you are reluctant to accept that this guy had ideological motives.
    From what I have read in the news to date, this fellow was mentally unbalanced with violent tendencies. Islam was a convenient axe to grind. If not that, it would have been something else. The US has seen plenty of large-scale violence, from Timothy McVeigh to Adam Lanza, that is completely unrelated to Islamic extremism, or religious motivation of any sort. Consider also Anders Breivik in Norway. Some people are just determined to kill and to destroy. The response of law enforcement should be uniform in that regardless of beliefs, justifications, agendas, or even the legitimacy of someone's grievance, violent crime will not be tolerated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    Jihad is not fighting with weapons, that’s a mistranslation of the arabic word.

    But Jihad is pushing toward good, it’s positive and it has levels, like being faithful, then the highest level of Jihad is mental, and it’s to teach and speak for what’s right, to explain Quran and Islam, to educate.

    However, weather muslims thought or not, this is what Islam says, Islam is the rule, muslims are followers, we cannot judge a religion by it’s followers as there are good examples and bad examples everywhere.
    Finally, someone who knows what she is talking about. Violent muslim extremist movements are no more representative of Islam than the Spanish Inquisition was of Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The Australian Parliament doesn't believe this propaganda and is meeting as I write to deal with Islamic violence.

    Wish us luck.
    I hope your parliament is addressing violence perpetrated by non-muslims as well. Otherwise you will need all the luck you can get. They might do better to address how mental illness is handled. It sounds like this particular culprit had a history of violence but somehow eluded incarceration or mental evaluation/treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    But to be frank, I don't think you know the meaning of the word liberal. So how can you engage sensibly in political dialogue?
    Meaningful political dialogue is more than a vocabulary test. We do best sometimes by dispensing with labels altogether and simply stating what we mean.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Qre:us, Redbone, Ene, Codex liked this post

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Then denial is yours.

    I have a challenge for everybody on here who disagrees with my view: please show me how religious and/or racial diversity benefit a country.
    You can start by eradicating Christianity.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #43
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    You know you've overstepped a line when ...

    Afghan Taliban condemns school attack by Pakistani Taliban | Reuters

    Afghan Taliban condemns school attack by Pakistani Taliban

    (Reuters) - The Afghanistan Taliban have condemned an attack by the Pakistani Taliban on a school in Pakistan that killed 141 people on Tuesday.

    "The intentional killing of innocent people, children and women are against the basics of Islam and this criteria has to be considered by every Islamic party and government," Zabihullah Mujahid said in a statement.

    Also:

    BBC News - Sydney gunman was 'wanted in Iran'

    Sydney gunman was 'wanted in Iran'
    Iran says it requested 14 years ago the extradition of Man Haron Monis - the gunman behind the Sydney siege - but Australia refused to hand him over.

    The head of Iran's police, Gen Ismail Ahmadi Moghaddam, told reporters that Monis was wanted for fraud at the time.

    (...)

    Meanwhile the Australian government has announced it is investigating why Monis was released on bail on separate charges.

    He had a history of religiously inspired activism, but officials say there is as yet no evidence his actions were linked to international Islamist movements.

    In 2009 he was convicted of sending offensive letters to the families of fallen Australian soldiers.

    In 2013, he was charged with being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife, and given bail.

    He also faced more than 40 sexual and indecent assault charges.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  4. #44
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    This is Islamic propaganda which we have heard time and time again, repeated like a parrot.

    And this is propaganda backed up by violence and discrimination.

    The Australian Parliament doesn't believe this propaganda and is meeting as I write to deal with Islamic violence.

    Wish us luck.

    The Australian parliament, then, doesn’t have knowledge, if it’s what you say.
    Violence is not part of Islam.
    Hope you education.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Finally, someone who knows what she is talking about. Violent muslim extremist movements are no more representative of Islam than the Spanish Inquisition was of Christianity.

    Yes, Islam is a law, muslims are followers.
    When we want to know Islam, we get educated, instead of judging it by looking at muslims, and even worse, looking at bad examples.
    Bad examples = people who miss obeying the bigger and basic principles, God bless us all, and may all of use get knowledge.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    Yes, Islam is a law, muslims are followers.
    When we want to know Islam, we get educated, instead of judging it by looking at muslims, and even worse, looking at bad examples.
    Bad examples = people who miss obeying the bigger and basic principles, God bless us all, and may all of use get knowledge.
    So you are saying ideologies should not judged on their practical consequences, they should be judged on the best-case theoretical scenario.

    In that case, let's bring back Soviet-style communism. The Soviets were just doing it wrong. I'm sure we can get it right this time.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."
    Likes Rasofy liked this post

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    The Australian parliament, then, doesn’t have knowledge, if it’s what you say.
    Violence is not part of Islam.
    Hope you education.


    Yes, Islam is a law, muslims are followers.
    When we want to know Islam, we get educated, instead of judging it by looking at muslims, and even worse, looking at bad examples.
    Bad examples = people who miss obeying the bigger and basic principles, God bless us all, and may all of use get knowledge.
    The problem for us is that narcissists can't bear to face the reality of an international death cult.

    The death cult is growing and expanding and won't go away. And the narcissists can't and won't believe it, putting us all at risk.

  7. #47
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    I have tried to engage muslims in dialogue for some time. But without result. This is not surprising as Islam has not taken part in the intellectual development of the last 1,000 years. So muslims cannot persuade intellectually and so become aggressive and arrogant.

  8. #48
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    So muslims cannot persuade intellectually and so become aggressive and arrogant.
    This is a bald faced lie, and not even a good one. Religion (of any kind) does not preclude someone from being intellectual, or render them unable to hold intellectual discussions. If this were the case, then we wouldn't have muslims with PhD's, MD's, etc.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    And the latest news headlines in the world of terror. At least 126 (mostly kids) killed in a school in Pakistan by Taliban. Fuck these shit heads.

    BBC News - Pakistan Taliban kill scores in Peshawar school massacre
    That's awful, but it has no place in this thread, as this is no more "Islamic" than the lone nutter who took over the coffee shop in Sydney. Unless you're willing to call Fred Phelps "Christian". That's what the analogue is.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  10. #50
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    That's awful, but it has no place in this thread, as this is no more "Islamic" than the lone nutter who took over the coffee shop in Sydney. Unless you're willing to call Fred Phelps "Christian". That's what the analogue is.
    I get that. I just saw a title with "Islam" and "terrorism" and figured I'd put the story here.
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