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  1. #151
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    So why do people simply live an die or get educated and married,..,etc ?

  2. #152
    Member Eska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mostasa View Post
    So why do people simply live an die or get educated and married,..,etc ?
    I fail to see how that correlates with my point.

  3. #153
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    Actually i'm against the fact to ram any idea down others throat. It's simple whoever wants to believe is free to do so and whoever wants to disbelief is also free to do so.
    Likes Hard liked this post

  4. #154
    Member Eska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mostasa View Post
    Actually i'm against the fact to ram any idea down others throat. It's simple whoever wants to believe is free to do so and whoever wants to disbelief is also free to do so.
    Indeed, there are no laws that disallow people to believe(publicly stating them). (At least, in most westernized countries.)

  5. #155
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mostasa View Post
    So why do people simply live an die or get educated and married,..,etc ?
    As I see it, sometimes there is no higher reason or purpose to things, and there isn't any need for it. Sometimes, things simply are as they are and it's as deep as it goes. Which, paradoxically, to me makes it deeper in itself.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Women in Islam (or perhaps, the Arabian culture) needs a thread of its own.

    There's a lot of controversy over what constitutes modesty, the purpose is thrown out the window when it's impractical, too (since Islam prides itself on being practical):



    This is just foolishness and a perfect sign of oppression.

    The interpretation of the passage in the Quran is different from person to person however intelligent muslims argue that there's no need to cover up, as we're no longer desert dwellers and it's highly unsuitable in our current lifestyles. There are also a lot of muslims that argue against the hijab in western countries as it attracts more attention thereby becoming less 'modest'.
    Yes I agree with you and @Coriolis both about the "modesty" that actually impedes the woman's daily life (how much can you really do with your face covered like that and isn't black HOT in desert climates, thereby encouraging the woman to stay indoors? ?? I have lived in the desert in Nevada and in the Mediterranean climate of Los Angeles and I certainly don't want to be covered head to toe in black outdoors in the greater part of the year, though there are cooler months in the winter).

    I think hijab is fine, it can even be pretty if the woman likes to be somewhat fashionable, but the problem is with that kind of modesty that is so extreme simply becomes the opposite of our increasingly pornographic culture. In Western culture I actually do think certain things have gone too far, like women are actually giving away things for free that they should not, I don't mean by dressing sexy, but wearing outfits that are degrading in their lack of coverage in public and to a point of it bring impractical (I'm a feminist, but to repeat my earlier point, it's hard to run away in heels, it's difficult to be equal when you actively incapacitated yourself with "fashion" that used to be a conceit of the idle rich, there are clothes that just aren't practical for doing anything physical and certainly I have a problem with PUA, an off shoot of this extreme immodesty, that basically demands women be free prostitutes, as in used like prostitutes but not paid)....and the other extreme of modesty that impedes women's activity, and also tends to create weird fetishes, ankles and knees may become sexualized, women may be called whores for showing neck, back or calves, there has to be a happy medium that's more ...normal.

  7. #157
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    Now look at the “barbaric” nation Arabs were called before Islam and what they achieved after that, look how impressive they’d become when they let Islam rule them.
    This is exactly what I mean by cultural influences on Sharia. In one particularly cynical interpretation, it was explained that Islam rewards obedience by giving everyone what they most want: men get lots of women (4 wives plus), and women get property (bride gift plus no requirement to spend their reduced inheritance to support family - that whole unequal rights/responsibilities "deal"). Similarly, I suspect Sharia included enough concessions to contemporary customs to get the support of political leaders, much as Christianity did as it solidified as an institution. To the extent that Islamic nations cling to these practices, they will remain in the past.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    That’s only because they were memorising Quran which has another benefit of shaping your brain, tuning you, many people had converted to muslims just by hearing Quran read.
    It’s not magic, it’s is the truth.

    In fact most muslims are faithful and educated enough to actually follow Islam instead of -with all my respect- blindly and deafly try to apply a mistranslated word of Quran in very barbaric way very [B]far form the brilliant Islam.
    The Islam that lighted muslim minds thought the years to raise such scientists that …. and … and …. and …./B]
    THIS is the essence of Islam, the hope and future of Islam, if only it can be salvaged from all the rest. The most beautiful, inspiring, and uplifting descriptions of the Divine I have ever read come from Islam, and in translation at that. In the original it must be breathtaking. There is a truth in Islam that should call to everyone, if only modern-day adherants will stop getting in the way.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 01-05-2015 at 11:00 PM. Reason: fixed quoting error
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #158
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    Correction:
    -Islam is not an arabic thing to be a tradition, it’s for the arabic nation, and you shouldn’t convert into an Arab to be a muslim.
    -Allah had ordered to fight back.
    -No genocide happened, don’t make me talk about christianity.
    Wow you managed to completely ignore answering his questions and successfully made a slip.

    You don't have to go into Christianity, he himself admits there has been genocides committed by his own traditions. However, those genocides and murders aren't justifiable by his traditions, whereas by yours they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    No one can deny the accuracy and fairness of the economical system put by Islam, we’re not going to discuss this.

    Hahahahahahaha! Honey we don't live in Afghanistan. Therefore, you can't - unfortunately for the preservation of Islam - kill us for discussing it and questioning its methods.

    ---

    I wonder when is it that the western world would admit it.

    Islam cannot be question, because it's fair. If you question it you will die. Because it is fair. We are not going to discuss this. Also, although there are over 50 Islamic countries and non of them have high living standards and have terrible human rights compared to secular democratic nations we are emigrating to your countries and going to change your laws into Sharia because your laws aren't fair and your methods of living are primitive and lacks in human rights.

    Allahu Akbar!

    Allahu Akbar!

    Allahu Akbar!
    .

  9. #159
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Islam seems 800 years late to come to the party of being open minded (and so seems I). Lets not forget how closed minded Christianity was. Why would Islam give women rights to vote. I find it odd that in Cairo, pamphlets are handed out about Islam that uses "Western Science" that proves women have smaller brains than men and are thus not suited for academia and rather suited for sewing baskets etc. So who is twisting who's words here? Is it again men hiding behind Islam and twisting words and "true" Islam is not at fault here?

    Religion in general seems to oppress and use shameful tactics to get what "it" wants. The "it", is what I usually suspect to be a general few who wants to be in power and control. However if we don't have some sort of law and order which is enforced, and by this we mean the religion who also acts as a "way of life". Then plenty of people who cannot enforce self control will be running around like headless chickens.

    So I'm a fence sitter, some people can figure it out for themselves, some require religion to keep them in check. I just find Islam to be more behind, almost like history repeating itself. Christianity was against the banks generating interest, until the views were challenged and it changed. In the case of Islam? Well the banks says, lets just restructure the package so that you "feel" that you are not paying interest, but they just call it something else. So that Islam can sleep at night. Islam updated their rules and says that if it is an investment, now they can pay interest and sleep at night. Who updated those rules? Was it Allah? I think not, it was most likely those in control (people, human beings) making the decisions. My point being, people who control other people under the guise of religion and a way of life. I have a feeling that Islam's exclusion book of rules are going to get a lot thicker to try and keep up, or some kind of conservative is going to create war because they can't keep up any more with their complicated constant updating lifestyles. Globalization is here to stay.


  10. #160
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    If you are unable to understand my paragraph then there is little point in discussing this with you for that, and how incredibly stubborn/set in your ways and utterly blind you are. Others have pointed out how blind you are to this as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Maybe Sharia gives you freedom to believe, but it does not give you freedom to be as you want and behave as you want. It's extremely restrictive to ways of life. In particular to those who do not practice or agree with Islam (see my comments below).
    I am not blind, it’s not even related to our topic.
    Freedom to behave is granted in Sharia.
    Remember freedom is limited by others freedom we must make sure everyone is in peace and not harmed even as the size of a single atom.
    You confused freedom with wild, which is far away form what we are as humans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    You say it's forbidden to be forced into anything. Fine, but that's certainly not what actually happens, and that's actually irrelevant.

    404 error: logic not found here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    NO. Absolutely not in every way possible. This is incorrect in every which way possible. We can even objectively prove that it's untrue if we look at something like the human rights index. Look at all of the countries throughout the world that have high ratings of human rights that do not have sharia law. Also, look at the countries that do have it, and how much more significantly lower their human rights are. In practice, this is what happens, and it is a problem. I will say it plainly: Sharia law is unfair, unbalanced, religiously influenced, and DOES NOT promote human rights or fair law. YOU'RE the one that needs to look at this from a "fair open mind". As I already said, it shouldn't even be used because not everyone agrees with Islam and should not nor can not be subjected to it's rules. It's objectively unfair in every way possible.

    Will you stop talking about me and back to topic?
    Are you using some kind of art that makes some incorrect emotions of yours appear like a reason for a bright word? That’s not appropriate.
    - - - - -
    Why is it unfair again?
    I almost asked you:
    Do you even know Sharia? or you’re just telling me opinions you’re heard?
    Otherwise explain and give reasons to your judgments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    And incidentally, the majority of those in Turkey are in fact, Muslim. A staggering majority in fact, at about 99%. Your example holds no weight at all. Of course it's the rights they want, most people are Muslim. Also, lets not forget that the coming to power of religiously influenced parties in Turkey was met with heavy disagreement and protest. Particularly from the youth of Turkey.
    I thought I was clear.
    In Turkey, some seculars voted for muslim parties on will.
    Please keep up with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I get the impression that you simply want Sharia Law to be this idealized utopia of how things should be, and ultimately make everyone happy and live the best virtuous lives they can. It might look great on paper, but in practice it's SO far from the truth. It's a good parallel to communism actually. An idea that looks great and idealized on paper. In practice though? Utter disaster. You desperately need to take off the rose colored glasses, stop viewing
    this as how you want it to be, and view it as how it actually is in the real world.

    It is great, it looks great on paper and it’s application as well.
    Btw how come you came with the conclusion, explain please.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mostasa
    I've sent you a message by the way. Did you ignore me ?




    I'm a new member here dear. I'd like to get to know each other. What about that ?
    I never noticed sorry!
    Welcome dear, I really have nothing much to share here, like really not in private.
    I’m not an arab btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eska View Post
    You've proved my point.

    Islam is a religion, nothing else.

    You can live your life in accordance to the scripture, although, it is nonsensical to claim that 'Islam is a way of life, it's a complete perfect lifestyle'.

    You can base the major part of your reasoning and day-to-day decisions on the scripture's teachings, although, that does not mean that Islam is a lifestyle in itself, it is a scripture from where you withdraw your values.

    You could say "I live in accordance to the Quran's teachings, it is part of my lifestyle.", although, it is nonsensical to say "Islam is a lifestyle.".

    Being a practicing Muslim can be part of your lifestyle, but Islam is not a lifestyle, Islam is a religion that has a particular scripture.

    That would be like saying; "A banana is a banana cake."
    Of course not, the banana is used in order to make the banana cake, but that doesn't make it the cake itself.

    No, incorrect, take a look again.
    Islam is more then a religion, a religion plus.
    Arranges you and you’re life, educates you ..etc
    Stop this “philosophy”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is exactly what I mean by cultural influences on Sharia. In one particularly cynical interpretation, it was explained that Islam rewards obedience by giving everyone what they most want: men get lots of women (4 wives plus), and women get property (bride gift plus no requirement to spend their reduced inheritance to support family - that whole unequal rights/responsibilities "deal"). Similarly, I suspect Sharia included enough concessions to contemporary customs to get the support of political leaders, much as Christianity did as it solidified as an institution. To the extent that Islamic nations cling to these practices, they will remain in the past.


    That’s only because they were memorising Quran which has another benefit of shaping your brain, tuning you, many people had converted to muslims just by hearing Quran read.
    It’s not magic, it’s is the truth.


    THIS is the essence of Islam, the hope and future of Islam, if only it can be salvaged from all the rest. The most beautiful, inspiring, and uplifting descriptions of the Divine I have ever read come from Islam, and in translation at that. In the original it must be breathtaking. There is a truth in Islam that should call to everyone, if only modern-day adherants will stop getting in the way.

    Right,
    And..
    Only four wives is allowed and as any other judge it has terms and conditions which sadly many forget, and end up making bad examples.
    However there’s nothing that can make the turret less valuable and it’s value is not based on the number of the followers, like, Islam is Islam even if muslims are not correctly following,
    But yeah, when you take a look, you see muslims are alive because of Islam, mercy and mercy.
    Otherwise I can say we’re bestowed favours.
    We’re thankful.
    We’re blessed.
    So I guess it’s the verse that explains no one is given more than they can handle.
    I hope forgiveness to all, first, myself, then, I bow impressed.
    Forgive my autism mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Wow you managed to completely ignore answering his questions and successfully made a slip.

    You don't have to go into Christianity, he himself admits there has been genocides committed by his own traditions. However, those genocides and murders aren't justifiable by his traditions, whereas by yours they are.




    Hahahahahahaha! Honey we don't live in Afghanistan. Therefore, you can't - unfortunately for the preservation of Islam - kill us for discussing it and questioning its methods.

    ---

    I wonder when is it that the western world would admit it.

    Islam cannot be question, because it's fair. If you question it you will die. Because it is fair. We are not going to discuss this. Also, although there are over 50 Islamic countries and non of them have high living standards and have terrible human rights compared to secular democratic nations we are emigrating to your countries and going to change your laws into Sharia because your laws aren't fair and your methods of living are primitive and lacks in human rights.

    Allahu Akbar!

    Allahu Akbar!

    Allahu Akbar!

    What? 0.0
    This is ridiculous.
    Are you insulting me?
    Anyway, I hold nothing personal shared here.
    I personally prefer secularism to “christianity”
    But Islam is the best.

    His questions, then, I’m aware, is meaningless once he gets my points that I explained.
    I’m efficiently answering.
    And of course Allah is the greatest!

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Islam seems 800 years late to come to the party of being open minded
    No, in fact, our thoughts and opinions about it is like 800 years old mind.
    This sentence is not true once you know all kinds of science were mentioned in Islam
    Yeah, yeah, since like the familiar physics and chemistry ..etc
    I’d like to give examples, but some people are 800 years late to discover Islam.
    Sadly.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

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