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  1. #101
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    [btw I deleted the quoted part above because I realized you had made the caveat]
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Not lately, at least. Hundreds of years ago, Christians were torturing and killing infidels for exactly that. If saner heads in Islam can prevail, in a few hundred years perhaps they will have moved beyond this as well - perhaps even sooner, what with modern methods of communication.
    Hundreds of years ago everybody was killing and torturing everybody, even the Buddhists. A lot of it just had to do with the fact that people had different preconceptions about the world and humanity and what was worth killing someone over.

    Even so, it's not a manner of sanity. It's not a matter of reasonability. It's a matter of what can honestly be deduced from the teachings of your authoritative scripture. It's pretty clear that most of the laws in scripture that people would object to the most are civil laws that were specific to Israel. Christians did try to institute some of these laws however religious tolerance eventually came out of Christianity and did not occur despite it. This is obvious since the beginning of tolerance in America was between denominations (though it was admittedly rocky) and then broadened. Obviously deists played a part as well, but their arguments wouldn't have won out if they were clearly against biblical teaching.

    We'll see what happens with Islam. We see signs that places like Iran seem to be becoming more western (and Christian) and yet countries like Turkey seem to just become more and more fundamentalist.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  2. #102
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    I am sorry if I had missed any post to reply as I had missed it.
    Please note me when you notice.
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    [QUOTE=Hard;2402501]Do you feel everyone should abide by sharia law?[/QUOTE]

    …..uh?
    One author of two things:
    -Us
    -Sharia laws.

    Is that even a question?!
    Yes, as I exist, sharia is the true justice law, the original and perfect system.
    So yeah life’s never perfect without it.


    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    You mean to say what mole said was not factual?

    Well, it’s not factual as it’s not the identity or application of Islam.
    Yet many incorrect and stupid acts happen under the name of Islam to….ruin the truth?
    Well truth is never hidden for those who WANT to learn.
    However, Islam is fair as there’s no punishment for people to disobey without knowledge or misunderstanding like you all are shown what’s not Islam as if it is.
    Also there’s forgiveness for those who do mistakes by foolishness or forgetting the laws.
    There could be forgiveness for all.
    Good works wipe out bad works, do heaven or hell is actually based on the sum.
    Punishment has levels and it’s fair, some of them are you’re very problems in life and some can end up in hell that’s of there’s no forgiveness when you’re works are mostly bad.

    What I’m trying to say:
    Only Allah knows who will enter heaven or hell.
    No one can simply kill you because he/she/they think/s you deserve hell or..
    No muslim is even allowed to argue you why aren’t you muslim, they can acknowledge Islam and tell their opinions after you ask.
    All happens with good manners.
    No one can force you to be Islam or else you’ll lose your head etc.
    These are Islam laws, and that’s why you can find non-muslims in Islamic countries and other buildings used to worship religions except Islam.

    I don’t agree with Mole as he doesn’t know what is Islam.
    This is madness, not Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If I understand it correctly, "real" Sharia includes a number of provisions that are strongly gender biased. Do you support these as well?

    I understand that much of what is done in the name of Sharia and Islam is not really consistent with Islamic teaching and the Quran, just as much that has been done in the name of the Bible and Christianity is not truly Christian. That being said, accurately following the teachings of either religion seems to result in at best a kinder, gentler sexism.

    I support Sharia, but excuse me.
    Sharia is justice not equality, it’s not fair to treat two different things in the same way.
    Humans are two different genders are atlas different anatomically, atlas I said.
    In Islam, females are last creatures created form males, thus female form of human in life is more perfect.
    That’s why even in heaven men are given Hour el’ayn. (yeah even in heaven they cannot be perfect without it)
    (So yes females are already given what men will be given in heaven)
    This was only one of the difference between these two different genders.
    So the laws should be different and believe me, the more you study them and look at life,
    The more you understand that without Sharia many of female rights will be lost.
    And that females are most respected when Sharia takes it’s place.
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  3. #103
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    What about Australian (newcomers) terror inflicted upon Aboriginal Peoples?


    List of massacres of Indigenous Australians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Let's choose a one: Myall Creek Massacre in 1838.

  4. #104
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    What I’m trying to say:
    Only Allah knows who will enter heaven or hell.
    No one can simply kill you because he/she/they think/s you deserve hell or..
    No muslim is even allowed to argue you why aren’t you muslim, they can acknowledge Islam and tell their opinions after you ask.
    All happens with good manners.
    No one can force you to be Islam or else you’ll lose your head etc.
    These are Islam laws, and that’s why you can find non-muslims in Islamic countries and other buildings used to worship religions except Islam.
    It's true that minority religions, Christians and Jews, have been tolerated to an extent or at least not obliterated in Muslim countries for many centuries. However, your statements don't address apostasy of Muslims themselves and attempts by non-Muslims to convert Muslims. Do you believe those should be crimes under Sharia law and punishable by death or imprisonment?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Alas, Jihad, or Holy War to spread Islam, has been part of Islam since the Prophet moved to Medina.

    Jihad has been enormously successful in spreading Islam from Spain to Indonesia.

    And conservatively, today 20% of muslims are Jihadis or Islamists.
    You are confusing the faith and the religion. Islam is good. Wrong interpretation, manipulation with Islam and religious fanaticism are not. We must separate true faith from radicals who hide behind religion to achieve their selfish, evil goals.

    I am a (family) Catholic, but I'm not the Spanish Inquisition.

  6. #106
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    …..uh?
    One author of two things:
    -Us
    -Sharia laws.

    Is that even a question?!
    Yes, as I exist, sharia is the true justice law, the original and perfect system.
    So yeah life’s never perfect without it.
    This is unfair an irrational. Sharia law is based off religious text and context. Religion is a personal decision, nor is it provable. Therefore it can not be applied to everyone else. To do so is to enforce unfounded beliefs on others which goes against human rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    Sharia is justice not equality.
    This is precisely the problem that many people take with sharia law. You're assuming that justice and equality must be mutually exclusive, when in fact, they aren't. People want equality AND justice, and you can in fact blend them.

    You're also going to be very hard-pressed to find people who agree with you on this front here either.
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    Likes Thalassa liked this post

  7. #107
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    I support Sharia, but excuse me.
    Sharia is justice not equality, it’s not fair to treat two different things in the same way.
    Humans are two different genders are atlas different anatomically, atlas I said.
    In Islam, females are last creatures created form males, thus female form of human in life is more perfect.
    That’s why even in heaven men are given Hour el’ayn. (yeah even in heaven they cannot be perfect without it)
    (So yes females are already given what men will be given in heaven)
    This was only one of the difference between these two different genders.
    So the laws should be different and believe me, the more you study them and look at life,
    The more you understand that without Sharia many of female rights will be lost.
    And that females are most respected when Sharia takes it’s place.
    So, exactly what "female rights" are preserved by giving a man twice the inheritance of his sister; giving a woman's testimony only half the credibility of a man's; having family assets owned entirely by the husband; giving fathers overwhelming preference in custody of children; having no minimum age requirement for marriage; excluding women from religious and legal leadership roles? The obvious physiological differences between men and women support none of these distinctions, and progressive Muslim thinkers and activists are already pushing for change.

    Blacks and whites are different, too. Should we have different laws for them? How about deaf people, or people with a photographic memory, or even those who are left-handed? Humanity is full of diversity on many levels. There is no justification for singling out one of these distinctions and determining people's treatment under the law on that basis. Americans tried that for generations using race as the discriminator, and we are still suffering for it today. Better for the law to be based on our common humanity, so the differences in how we are treated are due to our actual actions and choices as individuals, not what group we happen to be a part of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This is precisely the problem that many people take with sharia law. You're assuming that justice and equality must be mutually exclusive, when in fact, they aren't. People want equality AND justice, and you can in fact blend them.
    Equality is not identity. Equality of opportunity and under the law does not guarantee equality of results. Why? Because everyone is different, obviously.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Hard, Mole, Thalassa liked this post

  8. #108
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This is precisely the problem that many people take with sharia law. You're assuming that justice and equality must be mutually exclusive, when in fact, they aren't. People want equality AND justice, and you can in fact blend them.
    Actually you really can't. The whole basis of criminal law is discrimination. It's just a matter of what equalities you value and what you don't value.

    Current views on equality and discrimination really stunts thinking on these issues. Equality isn't always good and discrimination isn't always bad.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #109
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Actually you really can't. The whole basis of criminal law is discrimination. It's just a matter of what equalities you value and what you don't value.

    Current views on equality and discrimination really stunts thinking on these issues. Equality isn't always good and discrimination isn't always bad.
    The values of civilization are evidence and reason, freedom and equality.

    And freedom and equality are more sophisticated in that freedom limits equality, and equality limits freedom

    And it is limitation that is the essence of liberal democracy, in that, power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so the genius of liberal democracy is to limit power.

    On the other hand absolute corruption occurs in totalitarian ideologies such as National Socialism, Communism, and Islam.

    Islam is a totalitarian ideology and has set its face against The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and liberal democracy.

    And the totalitarian Left have recognised their own and have made an alliance with totalitarian Islam.

    It is though important to make the distinction between Muslims and Islam, in that not all Muslims are Islamists.

  10. #110
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The values of civilization are evidence and reason, freedom and equality.
    This is a good way to distinguish our difference. As a conservative I think the fundamental values of civilization are truth, beauty, and goodness. Reason, freedom, and equality, while functionally important, get you nothing without the former three.

    And freedom and equality are more sophisticated in that freedom limits equality, and equality limits freedom
    And it is limitation that is the essence of liberal democracy, in that, power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so the genius of liberal democracy is to limit power.
    Both of these are true statements on their own, but I think you're taking a bit of poetic license in connecting them to eachother just so you can make the point you want. If I'm wrong, please elaborate.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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