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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Isn't bringing up second-hand smoke usually done to justify tabacco regulation?
    If it is, then they are falling for a distraction, as is making "global warming" the central reason for curbing pollution.

    Smoking is hazardous to the smokers themselves, that is proven very well. Why bring up the a less provable reason when none is needed?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    If it is, then they are falling for a distraction, as is making "global warming" the central reason for curbing pollution.

    Smoking is hazardous to the smokers themselves, that is proven very well. Why bring up the a less provable reason when none is needed?
    It's because smokers kept using the "it's my body can I can do what I want with it" stance, and simply pointing out that a lot of people were irritated by smoke clouds didn't seem like a good enough argument to get smokers to stop, or to push smoking bans.

    So, they struck into the second-hand smoke argument to insight altruistic guilt. To tap the old Fe, if you will.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's because smokers kept using the "it's my body can I can do what I want with it" stance, and simply pointing out that a lot of people were irritated by smoke clouds didn't seem like a good enough argument to get smokers to stop, or to push smoking bans.

    So, they struck into the second-hand smoke argument to insight altruistic guilt. To tap the old Fe, if you will.
    Well, I would agree with most of the smokers on most of that. Private places can simply state its their property so they can do what they want with it, too. I would, in adition, charge a bill for cleaning up the smoke smell.

    Smoking bans are different from tobacco regulation, and even here I believe there are simplier, more obvious reasons that can be put forward.

    Frankly, there are similar health, and general wellness reasons to be stated for pollution regulation.

    But, I am afraid I have lead this thread a little off topic.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #24
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    We can bring it back on topic.

    If I understood you correctly, you are saying that opponents to environmental conservation are using the possible inaccuracy of a much smaller, less important detail, to delegitimize a much larger issue.

    Is that correct?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    We can bring it back on topic.

    If I understood you correctly, you are saying that opponents to environmental conservation are using the possible inaccuracy of a much smaller, less important detail, to delegitimize a much larger issue.

    Is that correct?
    That is it exactly.

    However, on the less important detail of global warming, I am convinced its true to the point that I am intereted in investigating it.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Vested interests doesn't imply people are lying, but it should give one pause. As for pro-climate change interests, yes there are plenty of misinformation on this side too.

    Unstoppable global warming is another book from Singer who is has the same funding sources, as is The Great Global Warming Swindle. You are being indoctrinated.

    I have not seen an Inconvenient Truth either (nor do I plan to). Go to your local university library and read through the actual primary sources (and find a diversity of institutes, and check out who funds them).

    I've read enough to know it's f'n complicated. I also have a general impression that the majority scientific opinion (by far) lands on the side of climate change, and a smaller majortiy on the side of human induced climate change.

    Even if climate-change isn't true, do you volunteer to have the pollluted air and water pumped into your breathing and drinking sources?

    Deciding to curb pollution is a "no-brainer."

    Well, I finished the movie. What can I say, I recommend it.

    I'm being indoctrinated? I don't keep a log of the sources of funding for all the science books and programs I watch, but I am pretty familiar with Al Gore (A POLITICIAN by the way). No, I haven't seen his movie either.

    Please prove to me that all the debunking of An Inconvenient Truth is wrong (Which comes from a new source every day it seems), and every piece of info in both UGW and TGGWS is wrong (I'm not talking about 1% disputed facts, which I've already read about)--especially the hysterically typical revelations about the work of the "2500 top scientists."

    Yes, the climate is changing. No, it's not our fault. So what. The world will be fine. I just wish the hysteria would end.

    Pollution is a completely different issue and yes, pollution is awful. Just look up in Los Angeles.

  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Yes, the world will be perfectly fine long after the human race gets killed off. The question is whether the world will be fine with the human race being fine on top of it.

    I just don't get how you can acknowledge the grotesque amount of pollution humanity has accumulated over the century, but not also accept the idea that it might build up and stick around enough to do real environmental damage.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, the world will be perfectly fine long after the human race gets killed off. The question is whether the world will be fine with the human race being fine on top of it.

    I just don't get how you can acknowledge the grotesque amount of pollution humanity has accumulated over the century, but not also accept the idea that it might build up and stick around enough to do real environmental damage.
    I was talking about global warming, that's why. To tell you the truth, though, I'm not as worried as many people about the real effects of pollution, but I do think we should try to keep our air and water clean (Landifills are A-OK). I am in love with electric cars, and can't wait until they're popular.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Bringing up that "Global Warming is a scam" is a tactic used generally by people who don't like what it would take to curb pollution (that is why there is a link).
    How do you know that? ISTM that you don't believe that people who think "Global Warming" is a scam don't really think "Global Warming" is a scam.

    BTW, carbon dioxide is not pollution: it is a key component of the life cycle of plants and, consequently, of all life dependent on plants including human life.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Global warming... so what. Britain needs to get warmer.. most Russians and Europeans would also agree.

    The biggest problem facing the planet is actually POPULATION growth. But you don't hear the PC Brigrade talking about putting contraceptives in food aid to ensure the problem does not get worse.

    With population growth within the next 100 years it will cause wars as we compete for resources. Russia US & China are all engaging in major long term resource plays as we speak. Energy is the big one.

    My guess is that sooner or later some disease will decimate a large portion of the worlds population.. probably genetically engineered (Bird flu strain etc - Influenzer etc) Just hope its western devised and not our gene specific.

    Don't believe? We are talking about the destiny of mankind and who survives in this increasingly crowded rat cage.

    Now, I'm off to burn some coal. I like it hot

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