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  1. #11
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    Charts are the highest form of scientific evidence

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    I would not bet large amounts of money that it will stop in the next 10 years. It also depends on the size of the trends, and how much a cooling trend within a warming tends counts as "ending".
    Well we'll have a huge warming trend in a few billion years when the sun goes Giant on us (Is that still the prevailing theory?), followed by a sharp drop and a cooling trend which will slowly approach absolute zero.

    In the 70s people were worried about the cooling trend. Was an Ice Age approaching? Somehow despite the increase in industrial CO2 emissions, the average temperature declined from mid-century to about 1980. It was a smaller cycle within the larger warming trend we're experiencing now. If you look at an average temperature chart that describes a range, anything from ten years to ten million, you'll see cycles upon cycles upon cycles.

  3. #13

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #14
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    A true skeptic is skeptical of the skeptics as well.
    Would a truer skeptic, then, be skeptical of the skeptics of the skeptics?
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Would a truer skeptic, then, be skeptical of the skeptics of the skeptics?
    That is redundant. Being skeptical of skeptics includes being skeptical of skeptics of skeptics.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #16
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    If vested interest means you're a liar, you'll have to throw out the pro-warming scare folks as well. FWIW, I was on the other side until I read the book Unstoppable Global Warming a couple years ago. It's a scientific book about climate. I felt cheated by the Al Gore types, and do even more today. I'm watching the movie "The Great Global Warming Swindle" right now for the first time, take a look at it.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    If vested interest means you're a liar, you'll have to throw out the pro-warming scare folks as well.
    Vested interests doesn't imply people are lying, but it should give one pause. As for pro-climate change interests, yes there are plenty of misinformation on this side too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    FWIW, I was on the other side until I read the book Unstoppable Global Warming a couple years ago. It's a scientific book about climate. I felt cheated by the Al Gore types, and do even more today. I'm watching the movie "The Great Global Warming Swindle" right now for the first time, take a look at it.
    Unstoppable global warming is another book from Singer who is has the same funding sources, as is The Great Global Warming Swindle. You are being indoctrinated.

    I have not seen an Inconvenient Truth either (nor do I plan to). Go to your local university library and read through the actual primary sources (and find a diversity of institutes, and check out who funds them).

    I've read enough to know it's f'n complicated. I also have a general impression that the majority scientific opinion (by far) lands on the side of climate change, and a smaller majortiy on the side of human induced climate change.

    Even if climate-change isn't true, do you volunteer to have the pollluted air and water pumped into your breathing and drinking sources?

    Deciding to curb pollution is a "no-brainer."

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #18
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Even if climate-change isn't true, do you volunteer to have the pollluted air and water pumped into your breathing and drinking sources?

    Deciding to curb pollution is a "no-brainer."
    Are those not completely different questions? It seems as if you think that folks who think "Global Warming" is a scam are, somehow, all in favor of pollution. Sorry, but that doesn't follow. If you aren't trying to make that connection, why your question?
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Are those not completely different questions? It seems as if you think that folks who think "Global Warming" is a scam are, somehow, all in favor of pollution. Sorry, but that doesn't follow. If you aren't trying to make that connection, why your question?
    It is a matter of framing, yes they are different questions. The fundamental question is whether or not we should curb pollution.

    Bringing up that "Global Warming is a scam" is a tactic used generally by people who don't like what it would take to curb pollution (that is why there is a link). It is a distraction tactic.

    It is similar to bringing up the "second-hand smoke" issue to fight tobacco regulation, or intelligent design to get a foot-hold on creationism. It is a clear, and unilateral attempt to indoctrinate people...and it works well on people who like to think they are different (Reminds me of the emo-kid "not conforming" by being emo).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Isn't bringing up second-hand smoke usually done to justify tabacco regulation?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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