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  1. #1
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Default Urban-suburban busing

    This isn't something I've thought about much, but public officials in my area are in the midst of trying to institute it in my county. My inclination is to be against it. I understand that urban areas suffer from white flight and the quality of schools in particular can go down considerably. However, I am a localist and the idea of moving children and detaching their education from their own community seems counterproductive to me. Will urban children who succeed at these new schools even want to return to their own community and rebuild it? It seems to be an effort to treat a symptom rather than a disease. There also seem to be fundamental issues of fairness since people move to specific areas to have their children schooled there and often pay higher property taxes for the privilege. That's not my biggest concern, but it exists. Also, thanks to section 8 housing this ability to choose where you live isn't limited to the rich and in my area I would guess that there is only one suburb that would be particularly hard for a lower-income family to move into (ofc, in any suburb transportation could be an issue for families without much money). I myself went to a suburban elementary school in the area where probably 20% of the kids were from a large section 8 apartment complex.

    These are just some initial thoughts. I'm open to changing my mind and am hoping to see some different views on the subject.
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  2. #2
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    My school district would have had like 11 black children if not for METCO. We had other cultural diversity but for some reason with African American kids there was/is a huge gap there.

    I think a lot of kids from my grammar/junior high/high school, METCO or not, have moved on to other parts of the country. Very few remain in the communities we grew up in. So I don't know if the busing has anything to do with that. It did give me a chance to make friends with people I wouldn't have otherwise. And I think it gave a lot of kids academic and life opportunities they may not have had otherwise either.
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  3. #3

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    Is this an effort to change things when the spontaneous order which has emerged without interference is one of racial segregation?

  4. #4
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Is this an effort to change things when the spontaneous order which has emerged without interference is one of racial segregation?
    Actually with interference it still tends toward racial segregation.

    I just found out we've been doing this for 35 years and the recent kerfluffle arose from adding a new district to the program. In those 35 years the inner-city schools went from 25% minority students to 80%.

    So this just seems to be a token program that might help a few students and enable suburban schools to pat themselves on the back, but doesn't actually solve the root problem.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
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  5. #5
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I agree though, it doesnt solve any of the underlying issues
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  6. #6
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I agree though, it doesnt solve any of the underlying issues
    Well, places are different. Who cares if an Iowa school is 98% white or a Miami school is 98% Hispanic?

    Boston was in a different situation with highly segregated neighborhoods right next to eachother.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Actually with interference it still tends toward racial segregation.

    I just found out we've been doing this for 35 years and the recent kerfluffle arose from adding a new district to the program. In those 35 years the inner-city schools went from 25% minority students to 80%.

    So this just seems to be a token program that might help a few students and enable suburban schools to pat themselves on the back, but doesn't actually solve the root problem.
    Yeah, I would think intervention wouldnt resolve spontaneous segregation in isolation.

    I asked because I remember reading about busing protests and violence featuring in books I read about urban centres within the US which were formerly white irish ghettos but which had become centres of black population. It wasnt a recent thing either.

    It interests me because there is an issue of segregation here in northern ireland on the basis of religion, desegregation is being forced in many centres by demographic shifts and resource led decision making, however most of the time I find that the people who are the loudest protesters against or about varieties of spontaneous segregation envisage desegregation happening strictly upon the terms of their own, whether its a conscious thing or an unconscious thing its how it is.

    Besides the obvious factors of race (the US) and sectarian affiliations (the NI example) I think there's a bigger and often unspoken factor of social class, the more working class and subordinate communities, whatever historical legacies are involved, often have inhibitors such as fierce anti-intellectualism, avoidance of intellectual or learning challenges because of fears of freedom and fears of failure exist and are disguised, even to the people who hold to them, as myriad grievances.

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i think the finnish system works pretty well. basically before high school(which starts at 10th grade, not 9th like in us) a law says that kids have to go to school(unless they fail it enough times to turn 17). kids are automatically assigned to the nearest school, but can apply freely to other schools as well. 7-9 grades are separated from 1-6 grades in many ways, for example only the grades from 7-9 are taken into account when applying to high school, also i dont think any grades can be required when applying to school for 1-6 years, but 6th year grades can be used to apply to 7-9th year in some school that have more people applying that they can take in(but there isnt many schools that require good grades in the capital area). Usually people just go to their nearest school, because education is the same. Usually if people go to other than their nearest school its because of stuff like issues in the old school or someone used to live in one part of the city and moved to other part and wants to go to same school than his friends etc.

    High school is completely different thing tho, because naturally its optional, so you wont be assigned to any school. Instead you apply to high school and if you got really good grades, you can apply to any high school, but with bad grades you can only get in some school no one else wants to apply, if you can even get in those.. When i was that age the minimum average number to a high school was something like 7.2(on scale 4-10).

    I think it would be stupid to force people to go to some school far away just because they are black or poor.. Instead people should be able to freely apply to any school. And schools should have enough space for people in the area and few extra places. Amount of people applying to those extra spots naturally should dictate what sort of grades you need from school in order to get in.

    Schools going downhill is a governments issue and they should be the ones fixing it by other means than forcing people to go to some random school far away..
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  9. #9
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I think dealing with diversity and people from different backgrounds is a very powerful thing to learn. Also giving students non-geographically restricted opportunities is important. Seems like a win-win to me.

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