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  1. #11
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Moments like this kept me awake when I worked in retail.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

    RLOAX (don't do it)
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    A lonely island where only what is permitted to move moves, becomes an ideal. Jung

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  2. #12
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Doesn't make it any less real as the Obama-is-running-this-country-towards-the-ground crowd I suppose. It's actually quite common to hear such statements through the underrepresented, especially when one becomes frustrated, and signaling it in one of these unprofessional ways is one of them.
    Indeed, I've also heard the inverse of the man in the OP*, particularly from poor whites in majority-black settings or locales.....but your OP made it sound like hearing this from a 'ghetto' perspective is a new experience for you, making me wonder if you've only lived in areas where public mixing across class and racial lines was uncommon. It could simply be a matter of location conferring different personal experiences (I've lived in Atlanta for most of my adult life, and Savannah for four years before that).

    *which is not precisely the same as 'Obama/Democrats/Liberals are running the country into the ground'.

  3. #13
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Obama don't care bout black people!

    Just because the President is black doesn't make him a genie with the ability to solve racial injustices and"living conditions" (perhaps he was referring to gentrification, ghettos and such).

    But maybe customers point was if a white democratic guy had been elected, republicans wouldn't have put the pressure on so high. Doubt it.

    God I hate politics.

    For the record white people can only use the n word when quoting or singing a rap song.

    Chris Rock told me so.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
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  4. #14
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Indeed, I've also heard the inverse of the man in the OP*, particularly from poor whites in majority-black settings or locales.....but your OP made it sound like hearing this from a 'ghetto' perspective is a new experience for you, making me wonder if you've only lived in areas where public mixing across class and racial lines was uncommon. It could simply be a matter of location conferring different personal experiences (I've lived in Atlanta for most of my adult life, and Savannah for four years before that).

    *which is not precisely the same as 'Obama/Democrats/Liberals are running the country into the ground'.
    It's common around here. If Chicago was the definition of not really mixing when it comes to living in the same city, this place would be the polar opposite of Chicago. It is just that certain neighborhoods tend to have some variances in them that give them their name. (I believe my city still have ordinances where we have to build affordable living towards new housing projects.) Heck, people who live in this city often call my area "ghetto" (which is weird for me because it seems just fine compared to other areas.) So yes, it could be a matter of location.

    So it really depends on what "ghetto" you are talking about, though.

    Other than that, I am able to split what the guy said, and infer on what was meant. But the way he brought the topic up was a surprise.... I suppose.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    It's sad really. What Jonathan Gruber (Obamacare architect) said of these people is absolutely true. A significant percentage of the electorate are perfectly brainwashed with little to no critical thinking skills (I think that's what Gruber meant by "stupid"). What destroyed Detroit are 5 decades of Democrat policies, but the people there still elect Democrat after Democrat and I'm sure they blame Republicans for the sad state of that city. It's self-destructive behavior brought on by addiction to government entitlements.
    The thing about anyone who talks about critical thinking skills and labels people stupid is that 99.9% of the time in my experience what they really mean is that people dont agree with them and that pisses them off.

    I strongly doubt that particular politicians holding office are sufficient to cause something like the kind of deterioration I've heard Detroit has undergone.

    Similarly I doubt that if you choose a state as an exemplar of peaceable, lawful and prosperous that you are going to discover it has everything to do with a particular political brand.

    More and more politics is a matter of PR.

    Deep seated things like culture, environment and resilience will influence responses fortune or misfortune, business cycles, economic structures etc. Those are less likely to influenced by things like politics, politics is more likely to be a reflection of those things.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    I know a few multiple-degreed people who are throwing around the 'it's republicans' fault' meme. They wouldn't get those facts wrong, but the conclusion is their conclusion is the same.

    The particulars don't matter to an Fi user who emotionally invested. Te will be used to support what the Fi wants to believe. Correcting them is seen as an attack and they become more defensive of the narrative. Fi has to be at peace before Te can be used rationally.

    But I don't really know. I'm not a political science major.
    What you are talking about is the classic idea that people are more rationalising than rational, that they are affect driven and only use reason in a support role, exercise confirmation bias or are basically blinkered.

    The problem with it is that when you attribute that sort of thing to one political perspective more than another the converse could be true and the same style of argument could be made that this is indeed the case, most of the time without even changing the words being used or without changing them very much.

    I read one time about a group of surrealists or political pranksters who deliberately inserted quotes from mussolini and even contemporaneous fascist parties into either french or italian communist and left wing parties to prove the intercangeability of certain keywords.

    I'm sure that there's right wingers, conservatives and libertarians who would flatter themselves that the left and what they would no doubt consider a pseudo-right are a different species to themselves but I think that's conceited. I've known pundits who talk that way but then in the same breath would break into a sort of "knowing" condescention of the great mass of people as "sheeple" who need precisely those machavellian push and pull leverage that keywords can provide.

    Although that's not to say that this is exclusively a right wing thing at all, try being critical of popular trends in left wing thinking, the valourisation of some of their minority constituencies and you meet with the same thing, its not considered "critical thinking" at all, just affect, in order to make it more easily dismissed or ignored.

    Reason and unreason in politics, ideology and life is probably a bigger topic than this thread.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I always find it odd that people give their political opinions in the most random ways to the most random people. There are much better places to voice feelings on the current (meaning, it will eventually be the former) administration, with more receptive audiences.
    I'd be less likely to volunteer opinions at all, about most things, although especially politics or religion, than I would have been less than five or six years ago.

    I've noted that in the journals I keep offline and noticed it as a real trend, sometimes other people talk to me about experiencing something like it too.

    Its a discouraging thing.

  8. #18
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What you are talking about is the classic idea that people are more rationalising than rational, that they are affect driven and only use reason in a support role, exercise confirmation bias or are basically blinkered.
    We're not Vulcans. Human beliefs and behaviors are more complicated than facts and logic. Of course we can be rational, but it is less likely when someone's upset.

    Reason and unreason in politics, ideology and life is probably a bigger topic than this thread.
    One wonders how the man arrived at his conclusion ("They've spent 6 years trying to fail him, and they've suceeded") with erroneous supporting evidence. IMO, it is an example of Extroverted Thinking being led by Introverted Feeling, which sometimes leads to the wrong conclusion. Not that this conclusion is necessarily wrong, but he didn't prove it.

  9. #19
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark
    The thing about anyone who talks about critical thinking skills and labels people stupid is that 99.9% of the time in my experience what they really mean is that people dont agree with them and that pisses them off.
    Who are we kidding here? Gruber is correct. Have you seen some of the youtube videos of ignorant voters? Many voters thought the ticket was Obama/Paul Ryan.

    George Carlin put it best:

    "Consider how stupid the average person is, then consider how half are stupider."
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Who are we kidding here? Gruber is correct. Have you seen some of the youtube videos of ignorant voters? Many voters thought the ticket was Obama/Paul Ryan.

    George Carlin put it best:

    "Consider how stupid the average person is, then consider how half are stupider."
    Who am I kidding? Youtube is your ace in the hole against ignorance?

    How many voters are conceited and is that as big a problem as supposed stupidity?

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