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  1. #21
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Oh, someone became aware of their white privilege? How uncomfortable to be burdened with the other side of reality, suddenly......
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  2. #22
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Oh, someone became aware of their white privilege? How uncomfortable to be burdened with the other side of reality, suddenly......
    :/ It's not about just that. There's a personal aspect to it all. This guy is out in public to everyone and their dog that his sperm aren't viable. There's constant judgments of cheating on the couple if they don't say their very personal and private information to everyone--obviously the baby doesn't match the father. Their privacy was completely violated. They wanted something that appeared as if they had the baby together--and I don't think it's disrespectful to the black community to say that a black baby does not look like their two white parents. MANY people want their baby to look like them. People go out of their way to find sperm that looks like they do. There's several good reasons for that that go outside of just 'race'. It feels more natural to have a baby that looks like what you would have created. There's a lot of therapeutic ideas behind all of that.

    It's different than telling everyone you want to adopt a child and it doesn't match. They clearly wanted this to be a private affair, and now there's no way it can be. Either she's a cheater, there's some black rapist out there, or the guy can't actually create kids which is a detrimental blow to many people as it stands on its own without tons of peers and family members being dicks.

    On top of that, this lady has a stranger's genes inside of her. That sucks. You prep yourself, you go through all this mental hype, and carefully choose someone to say, "Okay, I'm okay with this" and 5 months into your pregnancy you realize the donor is a TOTAL stranger you've never even seen a picture of before. That's fucking scary, and disheartening, no matter what race the baby ended up being.

    And the truth is, everyone judges. There's no way around that. And they were't prepared to deal with that.. it isn't like @Jennifer 's example, where they knew they were adopting a child different from themselves, and prepped for that. It's understandable that people wouldn't think the judgments and racism would be so invasive that they'd have to leave their home. But racism exists and it's out there. They obviously didn't know it was going to be as bad as it was until it was experienced first hand. But does that make them privileged asshole racists because now they're dealing with all of this? Not at all. Of COURSE they don't have to deal with black prejudice if they aren't black and are just getting exposed to it truly. AND on top of that it isn't regular "Oh, we adopted"... It's a stinging blow to the ego and sense of privacy EVERY time someone questions their child and family situation. But I don't see how they're being posh, snooty people by saying they can't handle exposing their family to all of that anymore.

    Need I remind anyone on the internet how people think of those with mixed babies:
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  3. #23
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    :/ It's not about just that. There's a personal aspect to it all. This guy is out in public to everyone and their dog that his sperm aren't viable.
    What guy?
    There's a notable fact that's glossed over in this particular story.
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  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Right, the mistake wasn't discovered until the pregnancy was five months along and in the State of Ohio, 20 weeks is the cut-off for abortion if they had chosen that route. Had it been discovered earlier, who knows what they would've done? --And that's it's own debate really.

    I think that I am tentatively of the mind that there is no way to enforce an iron-clad contract on life itself and that going in as the "purchaser," you need to have your eyes wide open about the possible complications and mistakes and be prepared to accept the outcome.
    That's a good point to bring out. I do think we've become somewhat spoiled/insulated from the realities of life due to the capabilities of science. There's alway some chaos factor in there ("life will find a way"), we can't totally control and lock down everything. Occasionally someone with cancer will go into remission against doctor expectation; occasionally someone on reliable birth control for some reason might still get pregnant. We can and should try to control what we can and make educated decisions, but "educated" also does mean accepting that life has an inherent degree of "mess" to it and isn't always going to unfold as planned. Again, the medical facility shouldn't get a free pass as you also stated, they did make the error; but regardless of their mistake, the parents still have an issue to deal with and must determine how to proceed regardless of any lawsuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    And the truth is, everyone judges. There's no way around that. And they were't prepared to deal with that.. it isn't like Jennifer's example, where they knew they were adopting a child different from themselves, and prepped for that. It's understandable that people wouldn't think the judgments and racism would be so invasive that they'd have to leave their home. But racism exists and it's out there. They obviously didn't know it was going to be as bad as it was until it was experienced first hand. But does that make them privileged asshole racists because now they're dealing with all of this? Not at all. Of COURSE they don't have to deal with black prejudice if they aren't black and are just getting exposed to it truly. AND on top of that it isn't regular "Oh, we adopted"... It's a stinging blow to the ego and sense of privacy EVERY time someone questions their child and family situation. But I don't see how they're being posh, snooty people by saying they can't handle exposing their family to all of that anymore.
    Was it clarified somewhere that they don't actually live in an overtly 'racist' area and are just dealing with inherent social bias? (You'd think two lesbians would have had a decent idea of what bias might be inherent in the social system/environment, for pete's sake, but whatever...)
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    :/ It's not about just that. There's a personal aspect to it all. This guy is out in public to everyone and their dog that his sperm aren't viable. There's constant judgments of cheating on the couple if they don't say their very personal and private information to everyone--obviously the baby doesn't match the father. Their privacy was completely violated. They wanted something that appeared as if they had the baby together--and I don't think it's disrespectful to the black community to say that a black baby does not look like their two white parents. MANY people want their baby to look like them. People go out of their way to find sperm that looks like they do. There's several good reasons for that that go outside of just 'race'. It feels more natural to have a baby that looks like what you would have created. There's a lot of therapeutic ideas behind all of that.

    It's different than telling everyone you want to adopt a child and it doesn't match. They clearly wanted this to be a private affair, and now there's no way it can be. Either she's a cheater, there's some black rapist out there, or the guy can't actually create kids which is a detrimental blow to many people as it stands on its own without tons of peers and family members being dicks.

    On top of that, this lady has a stranger's genes inside of her. That sucks. You prep yourself, you go through all this mental hype, and carefully choose someone to say, "Okay, I'm okay with this" and 5 months into your pregnancy you realize the donor is a TOTAL stranger you've never even seen a picture of before. That's fucking scary, and disheartening, no matter what race the baby ended up being.

    And the truth is, everyone judges. There's no way around that. And they were't prepared to deal with that.. it isn't like @Jennifer 's example, where they knew they were adopting a child different from themselves, and prepped for that. It's understandable that people wouldn't think the judgments and racism would be so invasive that they'd have to leave their home. But racism exists and it's out there. They obviously didn't know it was going to be as bad as it was until it was experienced first hand. But does that make them privileged asshole racists because now they're dealing with all of this? Not at all. Of COURSE they don't have to deal with black prejudice if they aren't black and are just getting exposed to it truly. AND on top of that it isn't regular "Oh, we adopted"... It's a stinging blow to the ego and sense of privacy EVERY time someone questions their child and family situation. But I don't see how they're being posh, snooty people by saying they can't handle exposing their family to all of that anymore.

    Need I remind anyone on the internet how people think of those with mixed babies:
    Suing because you didn't get what you paid for is fine.

    Suing because you have to adjust to racism within your society is the exploitation of the very privilege that they suddenly became aware of. If this was truly what it hinged on, then parents of mixed, black, blue, red, green babies can sue because they have to adjust to racism, as well. But, that's the clincher. You can't "sue" society. You can sue a particular entity. They get a convenient out, in that respect. Which I'm sure black parents, or parents of mixed babies don't have the privilege to do.

  6. #26
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    The media uses sensalitism so we don't actually know their actually reasons, but we get brained washed by media so often. Like look at this vicious piglet spreading ebola they're going to kill it. and that can be spun like "Oh my god! they're killing an innocent pig!!!! save it!! protest!!" or it can be spun like "They're killing the pig to save humanity. Rejoice!" my point is don't trust headlines.

    neither is false but the emotions it's meant to provoke is very different with each headline
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #27
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    @Beorn I'm not gonna even lie, when I read the article I read "Armond" instead of "Amanda" .. And now I have no fucking clue wtf is going on. Good call man. I read your comment and I was like "...huh? .." then Jennifer's and im like "... lesbian??"

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Suing because you didn't get what you paid for is fine.

    Suing because you have to adjust to racism within your society is the exploitation of the very privilege that they suddenly became aware of. If this was truly what it hinged on, then parents of mixed, black, blue, red, green babies can sue because they have to adjust to racism, as well. But, that's the clincher. You can't "sue" society. You can sue a particular entity. They get a convenient out, in that respect. Which I'm sure black parents, or parents of mixed babies don't have the privilege to do.
    Completely agreed on that.. It is a very, very convenient situation in that regard. But it's still a service that got royally messed up.. and the crux of it is, none of it would have happened if the company had done their job to standard and given them what they were asking for. So they aren't really trying to sue society.. there really and definitely is someone to blame in this situation. So, privilege or not, the convenience in this case is a very real and specified issue. The racism card and the 'I didn't get the service I paid for' card are going hand in hand to make this play. They'd have no grounds if they chose the mixed baby and then suddenly didn't like the results. And they wouldn't need to sue for money to move if everyone wasn't such a bigot (which they probably were in that pot as well until they sort of had to fall in love with a black baby).

    My super personal opinion is that things happen, and even accidents can happen for a reason, and I think these girls will raise this baby (rightfully) as their own and the world won't crash and burn because two lesbian white girls have a black baby. I had a very, very different opinion when I was under the impression it was a man and a woman.. because homosexual couples don't have many options as far as having babies, so it's almost expected and known that there is a donor involved.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  8. #28
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I do agree that the company fucked up and they should pay for that. What I find bogus is all the stuff about how they had to move because they were in a racist neighborhood or somesuch. They would have been happy to bring up a white baby in a racist neighborhood?

  9. #29
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    Whatever happened to acceptance in life. Acceptance that life doesn't run to carefully laid plans and stupid wishes of mere mortals. Grow up and get over it before you damage your child's sense of self by making an issue over the colour of her skin. OH dear a white couple now have to live with a circumstance people of colour have no choice about. Here's the smallest violin in the world, playing just for you.

  10. #30
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I do agree that the company fucked up and they should pay for that. What I find bogus is all the stuff about how they had to move because they were in a racist neighborhood or somesuch. They would have been happy to bring up a white baby in a racist neighborhood?
    I had imagined they didn't realize it was so racist until they had a baby of color...
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