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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    What happens if ebola spreads to South America or Central America? Hundreds of thousands of refugees would flood the USA and the epidemic would spread here killing thousands of Americans; we'd be looking at a 1918 Spanish Flu type of epidemic. I think we need to replace the CDC chief with a type 6 guy; it's better to be overly cautious when the microbe is this deadly.
    Yeah, I agree in a scenario like this, even if an outbreak in the US is not as likely, the virulence of the disease means you just be overly cautious until you're sure it's gone, versus treating it casually.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #32
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Yeah, I agree in a scenario like this, even if an outbreak in the US is not as likely, the virulence of the disease means you just be overly cautious until you're sure it's gone, versus treating it casually.
    Vaseline on the nostrils and skin would probably stop the virus (because the virus has a lipid coat and it'd get stuck on the vaseline), but it'd be awkward to have someone rub vaseline all over you. Also, I'm pretty sure Dr. Tom Frieden was in charge of the CDC when the zombie apocalypse started and he didn't think a travel ban was necessary.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Also, it would kill millions in South and Central America...
    You libs are always worried about people who don't matter.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #34
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    I inititally posted this in Showbread's blog (though I've edited/added things), but I am going to post it here as well because, well, right now I feel like saying it and I might as well do it now before the mood strikes me. Anyway, time for science (well, part of it anyway).

    While there is cause for concern, the threat that Ebola has to the country currently is very low to the VAST majority of the population. There is a lot of fear going around right now over this, and it's from the fact that the disease itself is just scary. There are other diseases out there just as dangerous or even worse, but because they don't cause bleeding like e\bola can (and it doesn't always happen), they don't get the fear response that Ebola causes.

    First, Ebola doesn't have a reservoir to sit in like in Africa (meaning an additional organism that the virus can sit in in the interrim). So, if it does come here, eventually it will go away. Ebola is currently getting all the attention, when infact there is another virus in the US which is pretty scary IMO (in fact, more scary than Ebola) called Hantavirus. It's not the only one either, there are many. I am just picking this as example. It does have reservoirs (rodents) and can infect humans just from inhaling dust particles from rodent droppings (though person to person is not known/reported). It causes hemorrhagic fever just like Ebola. So really, it's just as worthy of the scare. But, the media doesn't pick it up for long when outbreaks how up. The reason it's being picked up now, is because the issues in africa are disasterous. Rightfully so, they have terrible infustructre, and the culture there leads to further spreading. Even then, considering the limited resources they have, they are doing well with containing it within their country.

    We have much better infrastructure, resources, and logic-minded culture (i.e. non-superstisous) and if it does get here it won't go far, or last long. What we have going on here is effectively a form of the proximity principle. We are seeing Ebola more often because of the media doing a TERRIBLE job with over-reporting, and everyone is responding in a "OH NOES" manner because it's constantly in their face and we see a disaster elsewhere.

    It doesn't help that the CDC is being seen poorly by the public, and the public feels like they are making irrational moves by not enforcing travel bans. What the public fails to realize is that the CDC is an amazing orginization that knows its shit. It doesn't get the credit it deserves. The CDC is actively studying the situation and will be making the correct calls on what to do. he fact that this situation is being turned even remotely political is disgusting and morally reprehensible. The failures that have happened in the US and elsewhere have not been due to the CDC but by local governments or individuals due to shitty political incompetent or just human error that is unavoidable.

    There's also talk about people saying "Ebola could go airborn!". No, no it can't. It's scientifically impossible. The odds of that happening are infestessimally small due to the extreme mutations that would have to happen with the virus. The reason that ebola can not be transmitted by air is aresols that we emit (sneezing, coughing most commonly) don't carry the virus. It does not infect the lungs or lung tissue. It effects the blood systems. Cells that contain the virus are physically in different locations in the body, and is thus impossible for them to be expelled via the lungs or nose. There is SO MUCH misinformation, and falsely placed mistrust that it's very likely to render the situation worse if that kind of echoing continues.

    To put it more succinctly, there are much more dangerous things out there that could "get" you. It's not as infectious as many think it is. Ebola is not special. It just feels like it is because we are currently seeing more about it. If we start getting legitimate continuous and growing infections in the US then we would have cause and call for concern, but that has not happened, and dare I say, it won't happen.

    Relax.
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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Relax.
    Maybe I've misread the tone of the discussion, but I don't sense panic among the membership so much as dark humor, annoyance, and irony.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Vaseline on the nostrils and skin would probably stop the virus (because the virus has a lipid coat and it'd get stuck on the vaseline), but it'd be awkward to have someone rub vaseline all over you.
    This thread just went up to an R rating.

    Also, I'm pretty sure Dr. Tom Frieden was in charge of the CDC when the zombie apocalypse started and he didn't think a travel ban was necessary.
    If only he had watched World War Z.

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Maybe I've misread the tone of the discussion, but I don't sense panic among the membership so much as dark humor, annoyance, and irony.
    Don't know about here, but I'm tired of seeing people flipping out on FaceBook, etc.

    I posted something about two guys in homeland security vehicle in my workplace parking lot the other day, and two people starting going on about how it's probably related to ebola and how nervous they were about the disease, yada yada yada...

    ... really? Homeland Security is monitoring ebola now? I replied, "Unless Ebola is trying to jack a car, I really doubt it." Of course, they don't monitor car jackings either, but... anyway.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  7. #37
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I'm just getting over a cold and I want to remind everyone to make sure you get a flu shot this season. Not only because it protects the young, old and vulnerable, but also because you don't want to endure all the Ebola references people will make. I just had a cold and man was it annoying for people to bring up Ebola EVERY time.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  8. #38
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    First, Ebola doesn't have a reservoir to sit in like in Africa (meaning an additional organism that the virus can sit in in the interrim).
    The World Health Organization says fruit bats are a reservoir for the virus:

    In Africa, infection has been documented through the handling of infected chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope, and porcupines found ill or dead or in the rainforest.
    In Africa, fruit bats, particularly species of the genera Hypsignathus monstrosus, Epomops franqueti, and Myonycteris torquata, are considered possible natural hosts for Ebolavirus. As a result, the geographic distribution of Ebolaviruses may overlap with the range of the fruit bats.
    Fortunately, most Americans don't encounter bats, but from the WHO language, it's clear that they're not entirely sure if other natural reservoirs exist.

    The CDC is actively studying the situation and will be making the correct calls on what to do.
    The CDC have been aware of Ebola for at least 20 years; why don't they have a plan or strategy for dealing with it already?

    1) For instance, why haven't they worked with local hospitals to prepare isolation units before 2014?

    2) Why didn't they provide full body protection gear to the nurses at that Dallas hospital?

    3) Why didn't they provide training on handling ebola to health professionals in the USA before 2014?

    The reason that ebola can not be transmitted by air is aresols that we emit (sneezing, coughing most commonly) don't carry the virus.
    Sorry, but you are wrong about this:

    Available information confirms that this virus transmits easily among humans who come in contact with the bodily fluids (blood, sputum, aerosols, semen, etc.) from humans infected with and symptomatic of Ebola virus disease.
    WHO RISK ASSESSMENT: Human infections with Zaïre Ebolavirus in West Africa
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #39
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The World Health Organization says fruit bats are a reservoir for the virus:

    Fortunately, most Americans don't encounter bats, but from the WHO language, it's clear that they're not entirely sure if other natural reservoirs exist.

    The CDC have been aware of Ebola for at least 20 years; why don't they have a plan or strategy for dealing with it already?

    1) For instance, why haven't they worked with local hospitals to prepare isolation units before 2014?

    2) Why didn't they provide full body protection gear to the nurses at that Dallas hospital?

    3) Why didn't they provide training on handling ebola to health professionals in the USA before 2014?

    Sorry, but you are wrong about this:

    WHO RISK ASSESSMENT: Human infections with Zaïre Ebolavirus in West Africa

    1. The only thing I see here that is new to me are species of fruit bats that could potentially act as reservoirs. The key word is potential. It's speculative. Thus it's not known. Research needs to be put into this to determine reservoir's in light of recent events.

    2. No, YOU are wrong. You did not read or understand my post. It is impossible for it to be transferred via air. Period. CDC link. "Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food.". I already explained WHY it is not possible, but you clearly did not listen to that.

    3. There was no preparation because the risk of ebola was not over a threshold that warranted a strong response. I have no idea why full body suits weren't given. That sounds like local town incompetence or red tape issues. Training wasn't done because the odds of ebola being an issue in the US were so infinitesimally small it would have been considered erroneous.


    I already typed the above out, so I might as well post it. You're not worth discussing matters like these with as your lack of rational understanding on this and health matters in general borders on intellectual dishonesty born of ignorance most of the time has been shown time and time again. Your sense of risk assessment is completely out of whack and irrational most of the time. Continue to believe these things, by all means. It's of no consequence to me or the rest of the world since you can't do anything anyway, and most reasonable people will quickly figure out you're not worth listening to the majority of the time anyway.
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  10. #40
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    It is impossible for it to be transferred via air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    The reason that ebola can not be transmitted by air is aresols that we emit (sneezing, coughing most commonly) don't carry the virus.
    The first statement is false if the second is false and the World Health Organization says the second statement is false. It can be spread by aerosols. I'm merely telling you what the World Health Organization says. If the CDC disputes this claim, that's fine.

    If the ebola virus exists in human saliva and sputum and if such fluids are expelled via coughing, why wouldn't you expect those fluids to be infectious? Suppose it doesn't exist in saliva or sputum but merely in blood. This is a type of hemmorrhagic fever meaning that bleeding occurs. If bleeding occurs, why wouldn't infected blood be found in saliva when someone coughs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    There was no preparation because the risk of ebola was not over a threshold that warranted a strong response.
    I would have been prepared were I in charge. FEMA was caught offguard by Katrina; the CDC has bungled the AIDS epidemic (even today). What are these bureaucrats doing with all their time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    You're not worth discussing matters like these with as your lack of rational understanding on this and health matters in general borders on intellectual dishonesty born of ignorance most of the time has been shown time and time again.
    This is a nebulous claim; I would argue that NOT instituting a travel ban is irrational given that other nations have successfully avoided outbreaks (Iceland and Western Samoa) by restricting travel. Where is the CDC's evidence that a travel ban increases the risk of spreading disease?

    It is also a bit naive to put trust in any governmental agency when they've screwed up time and time again (look up the Tuskegee experiments, thalidomide babies, and now currently the enterovirus outbreaks).
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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