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  1. #71
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    My point is that, in every single occupation, there's somebody that messes up. Well respected occupations. There are good people who hold these occupations and are dedicating their lives to their cause while I haven't expressed proper, personal appreciation to.
    Yeah, I realize. That much is clear. That's the point that everyone is making when they ask that question. I'm responding to it at face value.
    Again, this society is always going to be problematic. Authority and power have been given to wrong hands for too many times throughout history. Is the president you vote for a good guy? Is your Pope is good guy? Do your neighbor watchers have their own skeleton in their home closet? I just have a different approach in life. People love to hate, but there is not fucking solution, let me repeat, there is no fucking solution coming out from it.
    What lecture on, say, research ethics is complete without examples of plagiarism and data massaging? The point of the lecture is not to deride those specific scientists, nor to hate in general. Recognizing the problems in a system does go a long way toward improving the whole shebang. As does, of course, encouraging those who take more honorable and wise courses of action, especially in the face of very pressing circumstances.
    Step out of the United States and travel to another country where citizens are responsible for their own safety and cops openly admit to being corrupted. You'll wish you'll be on your next flight back to your country. Note: I'm not American.
    Yeah, I'm all for learning to appreciate what one has. And learning through experience and exposure goes further than learning through Internet forums and other mediums that are very far removed from the actual problems. Some people have it worse than others. Some people have it better than others. Of course.

    Rather than merely traveling to another country, one could also try having been born a citizen of a developing country, where corruption is rampant and the only way to possibly mitigate its effects on you personally is to accept the system of bribery; then having migrated to a first-world country, but still holding these sorts of conversations because these sorts of stories are pretty sad no matter where they happen. (I may be speaking from experience.)
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics
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  2. #72
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    of course, encouraging those who take more honorable and wise courses of action, especially in the face of very pressing circumstances.
    My point EXACTLY!



    Rather than merely traveling to another country, one could also try having been born a citizen of a developing country, where corruption is rampant and the only way to possibly mitigate its effects on you personally is to accept the system of bribery; then having migrated to a first-world country, but still holding these sorts of conversations because these sorts of stories are pretty sad no matter where they happen. (I may be speaking from experience.)
    Yeah, I am one.
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    | | | If it is god who makes man, this is the devil finishing touches | | |
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  3. #73
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Stop with the straw men and misrepresentation.
    I made a direct quote (or near enough).
    Hey, close enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Quite the double standard to rely on straw men and hyperbole and expect me to provide research. Just keep paying attention to the posts in this thread and you'll recognize trends and occasionally I'm sure I'll post research findings particularly from Radley Balko and... ya know... the DOJ.
    You really like to say "straw men," I've noticed.

    But to even use that phrase, you'd first have to have an argument, and I found none in this thread's description.

    However, it does seem clear that this is a "Cops Being Bad" awareness thread leaning towards the "Cop Haters Club." Which I think is pretty one sided, to say the least, and to suggest, "If you don't have anything bad to say or show about Law Enforcement, GET OUT" to me, defeats the purpose of a Forum. Ya know, one of those places where people with differing views and ideas have discussions.
    Last edited by EJCC; 10-02-2014 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Removed insult reference
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  4. #74
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    My point EXACTLY!
    Well, right. It was an acknowledgement of what you said, and it is very much true (replace "of course" with "just as you say"). But that part of the post is not the entirety of my thought on the matter.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

  5. #75

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    Police Misconduct and the Taxpayer

    If you pay attention to these misconduct stories you'll notice a trend: Cop commits misconduct, Cop gets paid leave during investigation, and then Cop is cleared or receives minimal punishment. This happens probably 99% of the time especially in a shooting. In Wisconsin alone there hasn't been a finding of an unjustified shooting in 129 years. While corrupt cops might not pay the price for their misconduct the public often pays a hefty price tag when a civil lawsuit is brought. For instance this past week a jury awarded a family that was wrongly raided $1.8 million.. Some lawsuits will be settled for less so the family doesn't have to go to court, but even those smaller settlements start to add up when cops aren't held accountable and cause lawsuit after lawsuit. An extreme example is NYPD officer "Pistolpete" who has been the cause of 28 lawsuits since 2006 amounting to $1.3 million and is still only on modified leave right now. He also happens to be NY's highest overtime earner.

    What can be done besides firing officers that are not worthy of the badge (which apparently seems to be a big ask)?
    Well, Minneapolis has a creative solution they're trying out whereby they're forcing police officers to hold professional liability insurance and be personally accountable for the lawsuits. More lawsuits equals a higher premium to be paid by the officer just like doctors and lawyers. This should act as a deterrent for misconduct and cause repeat offenders to leave the force. Although, unless it's broadly inacted it would probably not be hard for an officer to just get another job in a department that doesn't require insurance.


    ***
    Oh, as a freebie for you folks who are complaining about a lack of attacks on other professions I thought I would throw in this bizarre account of a terribly incompetent criminal defense attorney who dressed up as Thomas Jefferson for his own disciplinary hearing. You can use it to start a whole new thread on attorneys if you want. I'll be glad to join in.
    "I Am Incompetent!" Lawyer Argues Unnecessarily - Lowering the Bar
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    What lecture on, say, research ethics is complete without examples of plagiarism and data massaging? The point of the lecture is not to deride those specific scientists, nor to hate in general. Recognizing the problems in a system does go a long way toward improving the whole shebang. As does, of course, encouraging those who take more honorable and wise courses of action, especially in the face of very pressing circumstances.
    The bold print is what this thread and all its proponents are not targeting, the thread would have a lot more substance if it did as you think it did.

    Essentially, individuals are "A La Carte", you don't get to pick and choose what comes with the individual, you can with a system. As it stands the thread (and the pro components) lack intelligence, information, and basic understanding with its focus on media videos, you have no idea what part of the system to target if any.

    I'd be curious what you guys know about the per capita basis of police misconduct, the values of said populations, what totality does it encompass, comparison outliers from the general public, the conviction rates, or anything related to the unique situation police have and the trade offs of different policies.

    Going base on media representation and running with the thought/theory is literally thy LCD for decision/opinion making, unfortunately for you guys the superior method does require data digging.

    Not that I expect to receive any thank yous, but if you are interested in police misconduct here is a sheer basic starting point.

    NPMSRP 2009 Preliminary Police Misconduct Statistical Report | PoliceMisconduct.net

    2010 NPMSRP Police Misconduct Statistical Report -Draft- | PoliceMisconduct.net

    Whatever info you find interesting, you can then center around that, in which case the discussion can actually focus on the why and or debate for that particular phenomena/result. This doesn't even touch the fact that the stats could even be further reduced in significance when you're essentially comparing the general pop who does not have to deal with the gray area of violence to officers who do.

    Its one thing if you are just looking for opinions or asking loaded questions which by its nature provides room for discussion, but its another if one is making a bold Assertion without substance to use on a foundation. Essentially, what good does proposing a wide range solution if the wide range problem isn't identified? Is the problem conviction rates, distrust, lack of investigation? Not knowing that, any "solution" to better police institutions is short sighted.

  7. #77
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slate View Post
    The bold print is what this thread and all its proponents are not targeting, the thread would have a lot more substance if it did as you think it did.
    Never said that this thread was itself about recognizing and solving the problem. At its core, this thread's clearly about posting about police misconduct in general. It's right there in the title.

    I have no idea what in God's name a 'proponent of this thread' is. Anyone who posts in it? Anyone who posts videos? Anyone who posts a link relating to police misconduct? Anyone who hates cops? Anyone who's around cops? Anyone who is or is not a cop?

    - - - Updated - - -

    In any case, I'm just going to set a video down right here. This one is much grayer in nature. Dude's waking around in an open carry state, carrying a firearm; there's some back-and-forth, and he's finally arrested for.. trespassing!?. Check out Officer Hernandez especially. She totally makes this video.



    Please note: by posting this video, I am not implicitly stating that I hate cops. I am also not asserting that I believe that open carry or concealed carry should even be things. I am also not even asserting that I agree with what the bookends of the video or its title have to say.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    Never said that this thread was itself about recognizing and solving the problem. At its core, this thread's clearly about posting about police misconduct in general. It's right there in the title.

    I have no idea what in God's name a 'proponent of this thread' is.
    Perhaps I am not familiar with the culture of the political section on this forum, which might explain my gap in understanding this. From what you're saying, the goal of the thread is not discussion and or debate (which I usually assume a pro/con side), but just a string of videos of particular incidents without advocating anything?

    Considering I didn't think anybody agreed with police misconduct, I made assumptions it was debate oriented around a particular action. In which case, I didn't mean to deride the thread, I automatically assume it was an informal debate which I was pointing out that the larger data should be the focal point and not media/stories.

    My "Proponents of the thread" was my catch all for whatever policy was advocated, with my previous posts trying to get you guys to clarify the taken position(s), when I was under the impression that there was a debate going on and thus a pro side.

    Anyways, thanks for clarifying that

  9. #79
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    Never said that this thread was itself about recognizing and solving the problem. At its core, this thread's clearly about posting about police misconduct in general. It's right there in the title.

    I have no idea what in God's name a 'proponent of this thread' is. Anyone who posts in it? Anyone who posts videos? Anyone who posts a link relating to police misconduct? Anyone who hates cops? Anyone who's around cops? Anyone who is or is not a cop?

    - - - Updated - - -

    In any case, I'm just going to set a video down right here. This one is much grayer in nature. Dude's waking around in an open carry state, carrying a firearm; there's some back-and-forth, and he's finally arrested for.. trespassing!?. Check out Officer Hernandez especially. She totally makes this video.



    Please note: by posting this video, I am not implicitly stating that I hate cops. I am also not asserting that I believe that open carry or concealed carry should even be things. I am also not even asserting that I agree with what the bookends of the video or its title have to say.
    These trolling incidents are becoming more and more common. It really makes me question what's lacking in these people's lives and how mundane it must be to compel them to troll the police in this manner. Of course walking down the street with a rifle will cause alarm, not only to the police but even more so to the good citizens who are out and about and enjoying life. It makes me angry, because if you were a father and out with your little kids you'd want and expect an officer to investigate such a situation for the sake of everyone's safety. That's the police's primary job after all. However, these asshats chastise the police for doing so and attempt to trip them into making a false arrest or doing something out of line. These people are lowlifes.

  10. #80
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    These trolling incidents are becoming more and more common. It really makes me question what's lacking in these people's lives and how mundane it must be to compel them to troll the police in this manner. Of course walking down the street with a rifle will cause alarm, not only to the police but even more so to the good citizens who are out and about and enjoying life. It makes me angry, because if you were a father and out with your little kids you'd want and expect an officer to investigate such a situation for the sake of everyone's safety. That's the police's primary job after all. However, these asshats chastise the police for doing so and attempt to trip them into making a false arrest or doing something out of line. These people are lowlifes.
    Where's the line between "exercising one's rights" and "trolling," though? He was being overly pedantic and surely trying to show up the police, and people who do that are usually smug asshats. There are plenty of YouTube videos out there to that effect. But that's not grounds for an arrest.

    He was carrying a gun. That, of course, potentially spells bad news for fathers and children, and so the police should investigate. And, verily, they did investigate him.

    If his state wasn't open carry, he would have been doing something illegal and would be charged. But his state is open carry. So they found nothing related to the gun, but they got him for something else.

    So why did he get got?

    Would they have arrested him for trespassing even if he weren't carrying a gun and being a smug asshat? That is, was their motivation behind arresting him for trespassing related to the notion that he was trespassing? If so, then they did their jobs and should be commended for it.

    Did they simply get him on trespassing because they scoured their brains for something to arrest him for, then arrest him out of spite because he was being a smug asshat? If so, of course that's bad on them.

    Did they want him off the streets because he had a weapon on him and that's a dangerous thing? If so, they had good intent, in my opinion; but he wasn't violating any laws. (Sucks to be the fathers and the children in that state, what with people roaming around with guns, but that's a whole other can of worms.)

    Any reasons that I'm not thinking of?
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

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