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Thread: The Police Misconduct Thread

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    "Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget."

    Yeah, no shit they support marijuana being illegal. Because the Federal government dangles grant money in front of them if they fall in line, and take it away if they don't. That's money in their pockets so they can pay bills and buy like, food and stuff. Last I checked, a cop's salary isn't 6 figures. A cop's philosophy about the legalization of weed is irrelevant. How it affects his ability to provide for his family is.
    Surely all that grant money goes into salaries and bonuses for outstanding work...

    I just love how, wherever you look in US politics, everything is ruled by special interest group lobbying, pervaded by corruption. But, alas, greed is capitalism's favorite son, holier than even Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
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  2. #52
    LL P. Stewie Array Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    It is not my job to critique or judge an officer who uses his firearm in the line of duty.
    It's your job to identify crime. Whether it's a cop or not shouldn't make much difference. In this case the law is the same for both civilians and police (though on some issues police can be treated differently).

    Based off of that video, I do not believe it was malicious
    I still don't think you understand the law.

    Malice is inherent in the act of shooting someone. The question isn't whether or not he committed aggravated assault (he clearly did) but whether it's criminal or not depending on whether or not it was justified by doing it in self-defense.

    So just not doing it in malice (the way you seem to be thinking of it) is not enough. The question is whether a reasonable person in those circumstances would fear for their life.


    because anyone can see behaviors from the person being stopped that would cause a reasonable officer to take a defensive posture.
    That doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not anything happened that would cause a person to fear that they were in danger of great bodily harm or death if they didn't act. There's NO WAY anything in that video indicates such a fear is reasonable. It doesn't matter what he was feeling or thinking. It's a reasonable person standard.


    .. but did it go too far?
    Jesus Christ. YESSSSSSS.
    That's really not a question any reasonable person should be asking.

    Quite possibly, but that is not my judgment to make.
    Are you kidding me? If you can't identify misconduct how can you be trusted not to commit it?

    Why should you be trusted with a gun (let alone a police badge) if you don't know that the law will hold you accountable if you fire it at someone without reasonably fearing for your life.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Array swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    It's your job to identify crime. Whether it's a cop or not shouldn't make much difference. In this case the law is the same for both civilians and police (though on some issues police can be treated differently).



    I still don't think you understand the law.

    Malice is inherent in the act of shooting someone. The question isn't whether or not he committed aggravated assault (he clearly did) but whether it's criminal or not depending on whether or not it was justified by doing it in self-defense.

    So just not doing it in malice (the way you seem to be thinking of it) is not enough. The question is whether a reasonable person in those circumstances would fear for their life.




    That doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not anything happened that would cause a person to fear that they were in danger of great bodily harm or death if they didn't act. There's NO WAY anything in that video indicates such a fear is reasonable. It doesn't matter what he was feeling or thinking. It's a reasonable person standard.



    Jesus Christ. YESSSSSSS.
    That's really not a question any reasonable person should be asking.


    Are you kidding me? If you can't identify misconduct how can you be trusted not to commit it?

    Why should you be trusted with a gun (let alone a police badge) if you don't know that the law will hold you accountable if you fire it at someone without reasonably fearing for your life.
    You try to make the issue so simple and so cut and dry, but it is not. I have seen videos (for the purpose of training) that display almost exactly what the driver in the video did (quickly ducking into a vehicle and then coming out shooting with a high powered rifle). Anybody, after it's all said and done, can say, "Jesus Christ, he didn't even have a gun!"

    A tiny percentage of people are actually put into that situation where they have to make that kind of decision. An even smaller percentage of people could accurately foretell how they would react/what they would do were they put in that situation. Any/everybody loves to point fingers and say that they would have done though. That's why these threads are stupid. Monday morning quarterbacking is cheap talk and should not be used as a means to try to flex and display one's intellect.
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  4. #54
    Male Array johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    What? Are you defending this?
    You're admitting that this is basically policing for profit and you approve. God help us.
    Yeah, cops are policing for profit. That's what I said. Nailed it. By joining an anti-weed legalization group, in effect, a patrol officer will finally be able to buy that Rolls Royce Phantom, instead of that old crusty regular Rolls Royce.
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  5. #55
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ Array digesthisickness's Avatar
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    All coppers are dirty liars and everyone in prison was framed by those dirty lying coppers.

    There. Your thread is a smashing success. You've convinced the world of The Truth. All we need to do now is get rid of all of them. Then the world will be a beautiful utopia full of people who always do the right thing and never hurt others. That's all we really want. The chance to prove we're capable of this without The Man trying to kill us just for the fun of it. Just because they can.

    ...

    Seriously, what is the purpose of this thread? What would make you happy? I suspect nothing will ever be enough. Accountability is happening more and more every day. Without it, this thread couldn't exist. We all watch the news and we're all aware. What you're doing is coming off like you can't think rationally and frankly, like you're fear-mongering. If it's all right with you, I think I'll keep my wits about me and not rise up in revolt just yet.

    I'm pretty sure every single news agency in the land will let me know when that time comes, if it does. The same ones letting me know every juicy detail of every hero who dies in the line of duty just doing his crap pay job because he wants to give something back to the community. Because he believes it to be the right thing. Oh, wait, they don't report those do they? They don't go viral, do they? Therefore, those cops don't exist, do they? Because they're not in the sensationalistic news, and only the ones in the news exist. And, there's no way that any of these news agencies could be possibly using viral-inducing news to sell as many papers and get as many clicks as possible.

    If only when I dialed 911 I could get a reporter or a youtube/google partner. What a dream world that would be.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    All coppers are dirty liars and everyone in prison was framed by those dirty lying coppers.

    There. Your thread is a smashing success. You've convinced the world of The Truth. All we need to do now is get rid of all of them. Then the world will be a beautiful utopia full of people who always do the right thing and never hurt others. That's all we really want. The chance to prove we're capable of this without The Man trying to kill us just for the fun of it. Just because they can.

    ...

    Seriously, what is the purpose of this thread? What would make you happy? I suspect nothing will ever be enough. Accountability is happening more and more every day. Without it, this thread couldn't exist. We all watch the news and we're all aware. What you're doing is coming off like you can't think rationally and frankly, like you're fear-mongering. If it's all right with you, I think I'll keep my wits about me and not rise up in revolt just yet.

    I'm pretty sure every single news agency in the land will let me know when that time comes, if it does. The same ones letting me know every juicy detail of every hero who dies in the line of duty just doing his crap pay job because he wants to give something back to the community. Because he believes it to be the right thing. Oh, wait, they don't report those do they? They don't go viral, do they? Therefore, they don't exist, do they? Because they're not in the news, and only the ones in the news exist.
    Well said!
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  7. #57

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    I don't really understand what you're trying to highlight. Like any work place environment, misconduct and or bad judgement can happen. And like any suspicion of wrong doing, it gets investigated.

    There is a legal process setup which reviews the action of individual cops (cops get reviewed all the time, even when they don't make bad judgement calls), and that is currently in place. As with other areas of work, you have stress, errors, competing demands, and tempers, since cops are humans as well, they also experience these problems. Let alone that their line of work requires good judgement under high adrenaline situations which is tough (thinking you fired 3 shots instead of 6 is very common due to the nature of flight or flight responses on the brain).

    Like any wrong doing, it gets investigated to see if the action was in good or bad judgement.

    So unless you have examples of municipal bodies which are actively hiding misconduct or not investigating a case of misconduct (which can occur), I'm not sure what you are chasing beyond, "police make mistakes too".
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    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    From your article:

    "Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget."

    Yeah, no shit they support marijuana being illegal. Because the Federal government dangles grant money in front of them if they fall in line, and take it away if they don't. That's money in their pockets so they can pay bills and buy like, food and stuff. Last I checked, a cop's salary isn't 6 figures. A cop's philosophy about the legalization of weed is irrelevant. How it affects his ability to provide for his family is.
    Pretty much like all of this. I mean, if you want to be all idealistic, everyone that eats healthy that work fast food knowing its bad for people is a hypocritical fuck up that sold out morals for money. Bought a chocolate bar by nestle in your lifetime? You supported non-fair trade chocolate industry--what an asshole. Friends with someone that likes Nordstrom? They use chinese slave labor to put together their shopping bags, you're pretty much friends with a terrorist. Got a teacher that's in the teacher's union and teaches standardized tests? How dare s/he not quit their jobs immediately in protest. All kids should be taken out of school until the system is perfect.. because standardized tests are making kids dumber, and everyone knows it, so those teachers must not give a fuck about their students to keep teaching and trying to get high standards so they can keep getting funding to do their job.

    Shit's not black and white like that. You don't have to agree with everything the government says to do your damn job to standard. That's why even if you dislike who the president is you pay your god damn taxes. You may not like the state's decision on birth control measures, but you don't stop paying sales tax either. The standards are set.. you do your job until it changes. Teachers teach because kids need to learn--that's the MOST important god damn part. Everything else is adult bullshit that affects students. They do their best with what they've got, and try to change it when and if they can. And when cops see what dope and weed lead to a lot of the time, I'm sure they're not all very sympathetic to the cause and don't give a fuck about dope being legal one bit. They're allowed to have opinions on that that differ. There are plenty of cops that didn't like it in Colorado--and guess what? Still got legalized there. So no, they don't get all the say in the world. And I see cops all the time say they don't bust people for that speeding ticket.. or that red light run.. cops let people off ALL the time even though they technically had every right to write people up. Cop buddies of mine have shared stories of busting kids in a bad spot and scaring them a bit into straightening up--but didn't wreck their lives either even if they could have had them with possession charges on their record for 7 years+.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    What? Are you defending this?
    You're admitting that this is basically policing for profit and you approve. God help us.
    Police get paid whether they're busting people for dope or speeding. It is easy to see why cops support keeping dope illegal, besides the fact that dope is usually just the tip of the iceberg for many crimes--there are actual dope users and ex-dope users that support it being illegal. Lots of people have opinions on that shit.. and surprise, cops aren't going to be any different. There are cops that support it, cops that don't. And people have different philosophies about that shit. Many cops were once in those shoes too--or had family members in those shoes that motivated them. Drugs motivate a lot of people to become cops. It's a common story. They were once in a rut, straightened up, and now they want to help others. Or they want to bust the people spreading that shit around. They aren't going to be super enthusiastic about seeing that change.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    All coppers are dirty liars and everyone in prison was framed by those dirty lying coppers.


    I'm pretty sure every single news agency in the land will let me know when that time comes, if it does.
    The thing is, Beorn's picture of all those people there to address the brutality shows there IS regulation in the system. Systems aren't going to be perfect. They're not. Nothing is. But do you think there's a huge crowd of people like that whenever a doctor fucks up? Nope. Nurse? Sure, they're public if you care to go--no one usually does unless they were personally affected. Teachers? Half the time nothing even happens to teachers. School bus drivers get fired for things they didn't even do because it's easier to replace the driver than it is to deal with an angry parent with a fucked up kid they refuse to parent.

    People are very, very quick to point out fucked up police lately. And they have every right to do that. Do your job right, and people won't be so nosy. There are situations that definitely need to be called out on. Absolutely. But those situations are, on the by and large, very isolated. It's all very conspiracy-theory-esque when you start throwing particular situations out as if they're reflections of the masses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slate View Post
    So unless you have examples of municipal bodies which are actively hiding misconduct or not investigating a case of misconduct (which can occur), I'm not sure what you are chasing beyond, "police make mistakes too".
    Which, I guess even that is fine with me.. But the idea wasn't juuuust 'look at how much fucked up police officers we have.. this is, I think, a problem because their profession is uniquely against corruption and oh the irony' but it has a distinct air of 'if you disagree with these sentiments you're a troll that's brainwashed/ignores the obvious/whatever other presumptions here and there's no reason to be offended'. Which I'm not alone in sensing..

    If I posted a thread saying 'anyone who supports dope is a total druggie loser that hates america' I would DEFINITELY expect people to say, "Uh no, that's not actually right and also you're pretty awful for saying that that's super misleading and just wrong." Even if that isn't the point of my thread, people can definitely still walk in and disagree. You're posting about a sensitive subject... because, like I said, misconduct of police hurts *everyone*.. whether you like cops or not, or are a cop or not... Good cops don't like bad cops... and people insinuating that cops are automatically bad because bad cops exist isn't really the best way to go about it... people are going to react.
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  9. #59
    LL P. Stewie Array Beorn's Avatar
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    This rapist POS should be in jail but he won't serve a day. This is police accountability at work.

    Theriot took a plea deal that forced him to resign as chief. He admitted to a judge that as police chief, he took a drunk woman to his office and forced her to perform sexual acts. He then admitted to lying about that to federal investigators.
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  10. #60
    an abyss of Nothingness Array Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This rapist POS should be in jail but he won't serve a day. This is police accountability at work.



    WAFB
    And? Do cops say this is okay? Is this an occupational violation? Or is this a moral issue? What the hell should other good cops say or do about this? Other than keep doing their job the best they can? Are cops trained saints with weapons? Are we living in a perfect world? Are we perfect? Are you perfect? Shits, terrible shits happen.
    Your example is a moral issue of a person with authority. I've read stories about teachers, doctors, priests, gurus, uncles, fathers, grandfathers, politicians, etc., figures with authority and power committing the crime of taking advantage of the inferiors. Shall we start some more threads too?

    Do you know how it feels like to have a family member who is a dedicated police officer and would do nothing else but make the streets safer, and then this kind of thread?

    This thread has gone into boohoo dead end.
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