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  1. #491
    Senior Member Also's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Was just going to post this. Though weighing probability, it seems unlikely that the ultimate decision to end her life was not one that she made. Though it is possible that she was badgered in a way that might have lead her to believe that a viable or the only viable option that may have influenced her into making that decision, but at the end of the day I ultimately believe that it was at the very least, that she was not 'murdered or that there was overt foul play' or anything of the sort.

    Though it might end up being like handing a criminal a loaded gun and looking the other way, how do you determine fault for something that is potential? They may have had the responsibility of determining her to be suicidal, or they may have urged her or said something suggestive, but what the family is edging at seems a grasp at straws/embitterment.
    I think what's so sad about this case is that the officer has clearly committed the assault here. "I will light you up". All of this over a minor traffic issue and a cigarette. She was supposed to be bailed out soon. Why would someone who had so much to live for, including facing the officer who assaulted her, take her own life? What happened to the officer(s) who were assigned to check on the inmates?

    I'm looking forward to witnessing how this will play out but I can't help but think that she would be alive today if he had written her up and walked away.
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  2. #492
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Also View Post
    I think what's so sad about this case is that the officer has clearly committed the assault here. "I will light you up". All of this over a minor traffic issue and a cigarette. She was supposed to be bailed out soon. Why would someone who had so much to live for, including facing the officer who assaulted her, take her own life? What happened to the officer(s) who were assigned to check on the inmates?

    I'm looking forward to witnessing how this will play out but I can't help but think that she would be alive today if he had written her up and walked away.
    Yes the officer did seem to be getting unnnecessarily aggressive, and as the side of the law in thaf scenario he should have probably tried to de-escalate the situation because of possible events like these. Who knows whether or not once she was taken to the station that she wasn't treated harrassed far enough, or threatened- because although the cop did not seem exactly serious in his threat to 'light her up', there is no telling how that could be interpreted-especially by someone already potentially in a distressed state of mind, to consider suicide as the more favorable option, well no maybe not the more favorable but maybe the more self merciful option/ the most self preserving against what she feared she might have to face. Though that does not make a whole lot of sense if she knew she was going to be released later in the day, if suitably distressed rational thinking may have flown by the wayside. It was noted that she did have a history of suicidal thoughts, and while common and possibly just transitory/not necessarily carrying over or having any sort of affect on her state of mind at the time in which she 'committed suicide', there is the possiblity that after experiencing what she had, it broke her or decided something for her that wasn't readily apparent, even to her, at the time she wrote on the paper that she was not suicidal. People commit suicide for reasons that seem more inwardly involved and less... Clear headed or obvious than is always expected. Maybe she really wasn't looking at the long term, that this wasn't going to affect her practically in a degree of overwhelming magnitude, but in the moment she wasn't exactly in a state of mind to consider anything but her own distressed state.

    That said, the tone of this does seem off. The way the police officer handled himself in that video, with an initial sort of forced pleasantness followed by a complete shift in demeanor at the hint of non-compliance, does not really lead to the idea that what followed up until her death was the most forthright and upstanding of practices and really does put this whole situation into serious question. As I said he was unnecessarily aggressive in the video,, and he was much larger than the woman, he could have easily physically overpowered her to the extent where she was seriously injured and became combattive to the point where a 'suicide' might seem like a plan for a coverup. Though eye-witnesses do say that she was the one who became belligerent and 'out of control', even ifthat was the case the officer should have known how to handle it in a better manner. He seemed as if, from the start, he was sort of... Not neccessarily targeting her, but wasn't exactly open to giving her much of the benefit of the doubt., and although the video does seem cut and not much really is shown of specifics past a certain point(was he grabbing her wrists to the point where it might have been damaging), the first few seconds of the video are enough to be incriminating. I doubt that she was murdered, but I wouldn't guess that there wasn't more to this story than has been let on. At the very least some form of negligence or... Police misconduct.

  3. #493
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Weldone american police. Your actions resulted in the death of another N-word person.

    USA USA USA!!!

    Now america go kill some more arabs and ruin their countries and inevitably increase religious radicalism in those countries.
    .

  4. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Yes the officer did seem to be getting unnnecessarily aggressive, and as the side of the law in thaf scenario he should have probably tried to de-escalate the situation because of possible events like these. Who knows whether or not once she was taken to the station that she wasn't treated harrassed far enough, or threatened- because although the cop did not seem exactly serious in his threat to 'light her up', there is no telling how that could be interpreted-especially by someone already potentially in a distressed state of mind, to consider suicide as the more favorable option, well no maybe not the more favorable but maybe the more self merciful option/ the most self preserving against what she feared she might have to face. Though that does not make a whole lot of sense if she knew she was going to be released later in the day, if suitably distressed rational thinking may have flown by the wayside. It was noted that she did have a history of suicidal thoughts, and while common and possibly just transitory/not necessarily carrying over or having any sort of affect on her state of mind at the time in which she 'committed suicide', there is the possiblity that after experiencing what she had, it broke her or decided something for her that wasn't readily apparent, even to her, at the time she wrote on the paper that she was not suicidal. People commit suicide for reasons that seem more inwardly involved and less... Clear headed or obvious than is always expected. Maybe she really wasn't looking at the long term, that this wasn't going to affect her practically in a degree of overwhelming magnitude, but in the moment she wasn't exactly in a state of mind to consider anything but her own distressed state.

    That said, the tone of this does seem off. The way the police officer handled himself in that video, with an initial sort of forced pleasantness followed by a complete shift in demeanor at the hint of non-compliance, does not really lead to the idea that what followed up until her death was the most forthright and upstanding of practices and really does put this whole situation into serious question. As I said he was unnecessarily aggressive in the video,, and he was much larger than the woman, he could have easily physically overpowered her to the extent where she was seriously injured and became combattive to the point where a 'suicide' might seem like a plan for a coverup. Though eye-witnesses do say that she was the one who became belligerent and 'out of control', even ifthat was the case the officer should have known how to handle it in a better manner. He seemed as if, from the start, he was sort of... Not neccessarily targeting her, but wasn't exactly open to giving her much of the benefit of the doubt., and although the video does seem cut and not much really is shown of specifics past a certain point(was he grabbing her wrists to the point where it might have been damaging), the first few seconds of the video are enough to be incriminating. I doubt that she was murdered, but I wouldn't guess that there wasn't more to this story than has been let on. At the very least some form of negligence or... Police misconduct.
    I heard that some sources have made even more claims about her mental state and her depression (?). I would like to see how that info gets filtered out, maybe that will clear up a lot for us.

    It does seem off. It looks like excessive force and negligence on behalf of those who where supposed to check in on the inmates. Only time will tell what will ultimately happen here. Truly sad.
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  5. #495
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    I debated whether or not to post this, but the nagging in my brain wouldn't let me not post it.

    From realclearpolicy

    In Search of a Ferguson Effect

    Crime is rising. Data from FiveThirtyEight indicate that between 2015 thus far and the same period last year, homicides rose 16 percent in the nation's 60 largest cities (though data for one city, Anaheim, is missing). This may be a smaller increase than you'd think, but it's nothing to scoff at.

    The question is why. Advocates of a "Ferguson Effect" say that intense criticism of police over the past year has emboldened criminals and cowed officers. Others point out that crime was rising in both St. Louis and Baltimore before the incidents that inspired outcry.

    I came up with a simple test. The protests are heavily focused on race, so if there's a Ferguson Effect, cities with high black populations should have bigger increases in homicide — the protests presumably embolden white criminals less, and intimidate officers less when they're dealing with white suspects.

    It's striking that, with one exception (Memphis), every single city where homicide declined had a black population under 31 percent. (Jacksonville had a tiny decrease and is 30.7 percent black.) Inversely, every single city except Memphis with a black population above that mark saw homicide increase.

    I did some basic statistical analysis as well, though as usual I should caution I'm a journalism major. I do get a statistically significant correlation between the two variables, though, as you'd expect from the image above, it's rather weak. There's a lot of randomness in crime statistics, especially city-level data covering less than a year, so I don't find the weakness surprising. If anything this mildly buttresses the case that something is going on.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
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  6. #496
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Laquan McDonald
    Skip ahead to 5:40
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #497
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that chicago officer will be convicted.

    I mean if this chick can get off...



    It only takes one stubborn boot-licker on a jury.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #498

  9. #499
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    There are tons of police misconduct stories that come out all of the time and I thought it's about time I start a thread where I can post them all. A year or so ago I didn't think there was a significant police problem in America until I spent time on a forum that regularly posted police misconduct stories so hopefully this will also help build awareness of the problem in many parts of this country. Of course stories from around the world are welcome as well.

    So let's get started.

    This dash cam video was released last night and it shows a South Carolina police officer shooting someone reaching for their wallet after being pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt.



    Story: Trooper Sean Groubert's dash cam shows shooting of Levar Jones - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina |

    Of course to literally add insult to injury the cop handcuffs the guy after shooting him.

    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    I wouldn't call him a criminal. He made a snap decision, one you'll likely never have to make because you are not in that role/position. It turned out to be the wrong decision, but does that make it inherently criminal? Should there be some form of repercussion for shooting a man that turns out to be innocent, yes, but it's also a gray area when as a police officer you're trained in a tactical manner and are always surveying for danger signs. Monday morning quarterbacking it's more than simple to call that officer an idiot. But when you're the law officer and understand that there are people out there that want/will kill you it changes how you approach each encounter with a citizen. If I'm approaching someone that I am encountering for the first time on a traffic stop and they quickly dive back into their vehicle for something you can guarantee my hand is at least headed towards my firearm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I guess you are the expert on bias. It's been established in this thread that you can't even identify a basic crime like aggravated assault with a deadly weapon when the offender is a cop.
    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    It is not my job to critique or judge an officer who uses his firearm in the line of duty. That is left to those who are paid, trained and have the resources to fully investigate each particular incident by looking at the facts and interviewing the parties involved/witnesses. That doesn't mean I automatically endorse an officer's judgment to use deadly force in every given situation, but I wasn't there and I wasn't personally faced with each component that led to the officer's decision to pull the trigger. Based off of that video, I do not believe it was malicious (and I don't think there's much of an argument to support that it would be) because anyone can see behaviors from the person being stopped that would cause a reasonable officer to take a defensive posture... but did it go too far? Quite possibly, but that is not my judgment to make. I don't believe I ever said that it would be asinine or wrong for that officer to end up being charged/disciplined for that incident, but you're not going to see me getting involved in the all-too-common circus of posting those videos and partaking in the character assassination that follows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    It's your job to identify crime. Whether it's a cop or not shouldn't make much difference. In this case the law is the same for both civilians and police (though on some issues police can be treated differently).



    I still don't think you understand the law.

    Malice is inherent in the act of shooting someone. The question isn't whether or not he committed aggravated assault (he clearly did) but whether it's criminal or not depending on whether or not it was justified by doing it in self-defense.

    So just not doing it in malice (the way you seem to be thinking of it) is not enough. The question is whether a reasonable person in those circumstances would fear for their life.




    That doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not anything happened that would cause a person to fear that they were in danger of great bodily harm or death if they didn't act. There's NO WAY anything in that video indicates such a fear is reasonable. It doesn't matter what he was feeling or thinking. It's a reasonable person standard.



    Jesus Christ. YESSSSSSS.
    That's really not a question any reasonable person should be asking.


    Are you kidding me? If you can't identify misconduct how can you be trusted not to commit it?

    Why should you be trusted with a gun (let alone a police badge) if you don't know that the law will hold you accountable if you fire it at someone without reasonably fearing for your life.

    Annnnnnnnnnnnd that Trooper pled guilty to felony aggravated assault. I haven't found news about the sentence, but he did spend time in jail while the judge decided.

    Sean Groupert pleads guilty in shooting - Business Insider
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
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  10. #500
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    It turns out that pandering to an angry mob for your own political gain isn't enough to convict someone of murder. Imagine that.

    Disbarment Charges are Filed Against Baltimore State Attorney Marilyn Mosby

    A George Washington University law professor has filed disbarment charges against Marilyn Mosby for her corrupt prosecution of six Baltimore cops in the death of career criminal, Freddie Gray. There have now been 3 trials and Mosby hasn’t come close to winning one yet and has even been excoriated for withholding exculpatory evidence. The list of charges against Mosby are as follows:

    - that she did not have probable cause to believe that there was sufficient admissible evidence to support a conviction of the officers;

    - that she made public statements regarding the case which were false;

    - that she improperly withheld evidence from the defense that was exculpatory;

    - that she continued to prosecute cases after the judge assigned to hear the cases found insufficient evidence to support a conviction;

    - that she engaged in conduct that was dishonest, fraudulent, deceitful and which misrepresented the facts in the case.


    The complaint filed with the Maryland Bar Counsel calls Mosby “a runaway prosecutor” and alleges she violated ethics rules, claiming she never had probable cause to charge six officers in the death of Freddie Gray.

    “I think Marilyn Mosby has harmed the city of Baltimore. And if she continues, that harm will get worse,” said law professor John Banzhaf, George Washington University.

    Banzhaf, who filed the complaint, accuses Mosby of only filing charges to stop the unrest in Baltimore.

    “I heard your call for ‘No justice, no peace.’ Your peace is sincerely needed as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man,” Mosby said in May of 2015.

    Banzhaf’s complaint calls Mosby’s words a “misuse of her role” and a “perversion of her office.”
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