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  1. #481
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It may have something to do with cop's not unreasonable fear that they are liable to be put on trial in the court of public opinion regardless of how well they do their jobs.

    Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
    And whose fault is that?

    Yes, there is likely to be cases where cops are wrongly blamed for doing this or that which was either perfectly fine or never actually happened. But that is a risk you take when you apply for that job. You cannot stop doing it because the wheater is getting ugly. A cop's duty is to the law, not to his own sense of well-being. Also, fortunately, the court of public opinion has not yet sent anyone to prison - a fate, coincidentally, cops seem to suffer rather rarely from any court.

    Your general stance in this debate seems to be that cops are people just like you and me (although that gives us quite a range). However, defending misconduct on these terms fails to take into account that being a policeman is unlike your job or mine, different as they are, because the police represent state authority. With such power does indeed come more responsibility. They are required to be better than you and me in difficult situations that demand quick and just decision making. If, being people like all the rest, they cannot perform well under stress, lack the proper judgment, or hold personal prejudices that would be perfectly acceptable in reactionary politicians, they are simply not qualified.
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  2. #482
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    ^ Welcome back, Monica!

  3. #483
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    And whose fault is that?

    Yes, there is likely to be cases where cops are wrongly blamed for doing this or that which was either perfectly fine or never actually happened. But that is a risk you take when you apply for that job. You cannot stop doing it because the wheater is getting ugly. A cop's duty is to the law, not to his own sense of well-being. Also, fortunately, the court of public opinion has not yet sent anyone to prison - a fate, coincidentally, cops seem to suffer rather rarely from any court.

    Your general stance in this debate seems to be that cops are people just like you and me (although that gives us quite a range). However, defending misconduct on these terms fails to take into account that being a policeman is unlike your job or mine, different as they are, because the police represent state authority. With such power does indeed come more responsibility. They are required to be better than you and me in difficult situations that demand quick and just decision making. If, being people like all the rest, they cannot perform well under stress, lack the proper judgment, or hold personal prejudices that would be perfectly acceptable in reactionary politicians, they are simply not qualified.
    I have never defended misconduct.

    I have tried to dissuade folks from entertaining the misinformed and disingenuous portrayals of police generally.

    See you in September bud
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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  4. #484
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post

    I have tried to dissuade folks from entertaining the misinformed and disingenuous portrayals of police generally.

    See you in September bud
    What are the misinformed and disingenuous portrayals?

  5. #485
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    @DiscoBiscuit, a general question for you: Do you think USA currently has a problem with racism? (interpret that however broadly or narrowly you want, but please don't respond with a question).

    I'm genuinely curious on your take.

  6. #486
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I won't be posting in this thread anymore, however I would really like to direct you all to a great blog.

    Ex-Cop Lawyer is written by a 20 year Law Enforcement Vet (serving in TX) who's now a lawyer. He does a great job explaining the actual law and explaining when cops do things wrong or right on video.

    This isn't a video post, but it's great explanation of the constitutional role of officer safety in policy making:

    Finally Officer Safety is Put in it's Proper Place in a Police Magazine

    In the January 2015 edition of Law and Order, a police management magazine, there is an article that not only the management should read, but that should be passed on to every officer.

    The article, No “Officer Safety” Exception to the Constitution, Charles Huth, Jack Colwell, and Randy Means, Law and Order, Jan. 2015, is very clear that officer safety has gone too far. They state:

    “A number of law enforcement agencies are currently under fire for their patterns and practices of “stop and frisk.” This is only the present manifestation of what has been for decades a national epidemic of illegal police practices rationalized by the mantra “officer safety.” Frisks are not supposed to be the rule in Terry-type stops; the rule would be no frisk. The same is true for handcuffing subjects and placing them in the back of police cars.” Id.

    Guys, this isn’t just me, an old, worn out street cop saying this by myself, these are well-respected leaders in the profession. Huth is the past President of the National Law Enforcement Training Center* and a Captain with the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department. After the Eric Garner death, Huth was on CBS News showing the difference between an arm-bar chokehold and the much safer lateral vascular neck restraint (LVNR). Colwell retired from the KCMOPD after 29 years and is the co-author of Unleashing the Power of Unconditional Respect with Huth, a program for increasing officer connection with the community and decreasing confrontations. Finally, Means is a partner at The Thomas & Means Law Firm, and has a long history as a police legal advisor, and risk management at the IACP.

    The article is outstanding, pointing out that there is no officer safety exception in the U.S. Constitution.

    “So, where does one find the officer safety exception to the Constitution? Generally speaking, it doesn’t exist. Generally, the rights of the people trump the rights of an officer to be guaranteed a safe outcome in dangerous situations.” Id. (emphasis added).
    continued: https://excoplawstudent.wordpress.co...lice-magazine/

  7. #487
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #488
    Black Rose Krim13's Avatar
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    While I agree they go too far and often in these vids, sometimes the other person is merely aggravating them and it's understandable that the cops can get sick of people's shit after a while. This us vs them mentality won't do us any good, for without the cops it'd just be chaos. I would say only small portions of the cops have a problem like this, and it's been heavily focused on by the News resulting in the disgusted attitude we grow into for cops in general now. Including in crowd control. Kind of ironic. More violence happens here, the hate for them festers as a whole largely, they're put on the spotlight of the News from the civilian point of view, and the perception only goes downhill.

    However... Some of these cops are pretty fucked up. I'm just saying that I feel they're too generalized. And it just seems like the News view and highlight of the situations further the us vs them mentality I'd prefer not to fester.
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  9. #489
    Senior Member Also's Avatar
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  10. #490
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Also View Post

    Was just going to post this. Though weighing probability, it seems unlikely that the ultimate decision to end her life was not one that she made. Though it is possible that she was badgered in a way that might have lead her to believe that a viable or the only viable option that may have influenced her into making that decision, but at the end of the day I ultimately believe that it was at the very least, that she was not 'murdered or that there was overt foul play' or anything of the sort.

    Though it might end up being like handing a criminal a loaded gun and looking the other way, how do you determine fault for something that is potential? They may have had the responsibility of determining her to be suidical, or they may have urged her or said something suggestive, but what the family is edging at seems a grasp at straws/embitterment.

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