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Thread: The Police Misconduct Thread

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Ftr, this is what I'd do in my suburb where police are much less likely to be over-zealous. In jurisdictions with a history of police problems I would be much more hesitant to call even in the most peaceful situations. Why? Well...

    San Francisco police beat up and detain Good Samaritans who call 911 and perform first aid on accident victim
    Lol, you found a single, negative police incident (I'm not saying there aren't more, but of course it's a negligible percentage) that occurred in a city of almost 900,000 people (can you imagine the volume of calls for service in that city?) and you'd now therefore refrain from calling their police in "even the most peaceful situations." I figured you were more intelligent than to throw around blanket statements like that.

  2. #32
    LL P. Stewie Array Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Lol, you found a single, negative police incident (I'm not saying there aren't more, but of course it's a negligible percentage) that occurred in a city of almost 900,000 people (can you imagine the volume of calls for service in that city?) and you'd now therefore refrain from calling their police in "even the most peaceful situations." That's not completely ignorant or anything. I figured you were more intelligent than to throw around blanket statements like that.
    This has happened before there. SF has a problem... Of course we don't know the extent of the problem because of a lack of accountability.

    State Law Hides Investigations of Police Misconduct from Public Scrutiny | NBC Bay Area

    Are you really arguing that there aren't jurisdictions with significant systemic abuse issues?
    Because the DOJ would disagree.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Array swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This has happened before there. SF has a problem... Of course we don't know the extent of the problem because of a lack of accountability.

    State Law Hides Investigations of Police Misconduct from Public Scrutiny | NBC Bay Area

    Are you really arguing that there aren't jurisdictions with significant systemic abuse issues?
    Because the DOJ would disagree.
    I'm arguing that in a department of that size, it's ignorant and foolish to call all their officers a bunch of abusers. That's really the gist of what I've been saying the whole time. A department can have "systemic abuse issues", but that doesn't necessarily mean it's ratio of bad officers is higher, it just means the department is doing a bad job of disciplining those bad officers, holding them accountable and being transparent about it.
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  4. #34
    LL P. Stewie Array Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    I'm arguing that in a department of that size, it's ignorant and foolish to call all their officers a bunch of abusers. That's really the gist of what I've been saying the whole time. A department can have "systemic abuse issues", but that doesn't necessarily mean it's ratio of bad officers is higher, it just means the department is doing a bad job of disciplining those bad officers, holding them accountable and being transparent about it.
    Who said anything about ratios of bad officers? Why are you so concerned about the reputation of the police? I'm concerned about the physical safety and secured freedoms of the people. Reputations be damned.
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  5. #35
    LL P. Stewie Array Beorn's Avatar
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    Being concerned with reputations is part of the problem. I recall Partensky stating in one article that while being held at the PD one officer was honest with him and said that the officer that arrested him "was one of those young officers looking to gain a reputation for being tough."
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  6. #36
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    This is the one that is most memorable for me, I suppose.



    Arizona, graphic.

    A camping homeless man gets shot. Probably the only danger from the guy was a knife.

    EDIT: Taking away some of the commentary ends at 2:00. http://youtu.be/iWQ5lu8jSMc?t=37s

  7. #37
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    why would you be bothered by a thread like this?
    Because it's misrepresenting. It's assuming police have a far higher rate of misconduct than, say, teachers (who are rarely ever truly fired for their misconduct outside of sexual assaults), doctors (who lose their licenses all the time, even moreso than teachers are fired), and nurses, who have upwards of 500+ suspensions/court mandates on their licenses every quarter and America voted them the most trusted profession out there. There are plenty of misconducts if you bother to go looking for them. I can show off horrible, terrible examples of nurses all day long based on public knowledge that the board reports all the time... but that doesn't really represent the majority of the population of nurses. They're a vast minority when you consider 500 quarterly = somewhere around 2,000 annually and that's only 3% of the practicing, employed nurses in the state. Very low rate. But if I focus on that, it sounds massive and awful and like all nurses are fuck ups. All professions have their fuck ups. That's society and human nature. There isn't a single work environment safe from it.

    I'm not saying don't make a thread--by all means go for it sure. But why would it be offensive? Pretty obvious why. Good cops and good citizens that like cops and respect them hate police brutality shit just as much as the next person. I used to deal with this in the army a lot too--there were liberal people that'd spit at the ground at me because they thought I kicked a box of puppies off a cliff--as if I was that one individual fucked up marine even though I was the wrong age, location, gender, force, and pretty much anything else that would have anything to do with that guy. It sucks seeing police fuck up for everyone.. so.. I'm not offended by 'exposing' fuck ups. At all. But ... The connotation of collecting massive amounts of videos without a real concrete direction or point is sort of under the pretense of saying, "Look how fucked up ALL police are."

    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Because, these threads do nothing for "accountability" they just feed in to the negative sentiment that it's "us vs. them" and that cops are the bad guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm pretty sure the police (and swamp-load of unnecessary crimes) created the Us v. Them mentality.
    No one forces that mentality onto others. It's agreed upon. The police didn't make this mentality... and if they tried, you lapped it up quick and without hesitation and conveniently met them halfway on it. For every unnecessary crime a police officer has made, there are 100 examples of completely necessary police work that saved lives, helped children get out of rancid homes, and actually protected and served. I'm pretty sure if you want to see ugly things, you'll see them just fine with or without the help of any police.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Array swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Who said anything about ratios of bad officers? Why are you so concerned about the reputation of the police? I'm concerned about the physical safety and secured freedoms of the people. Reputations be damned.
    Well then why not make a thread "*list any occupation here* misconduct"?? Physical safety and preserving freedoms will always be violated by bad people in any arena. It's a people issue not an occupational issue. It appears you just have a chip on your shoulder and are opposed to authority as a matter of personal principle; not that you're actually using sound and reasonable logic in your arguments.

  9. #39
    LL P. Stewie Array Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Well then why not make a thread "*list any occupation here* misconduct"??
    Sure. We can make a thread for any occupation that has systemic issues. Lord knows catholic priests have taken a beating in here. In a similar stance to yours on police I don't think the abuse warrants universal condemnation of the church institution. But unlike your stance on police I'm not in denial that there was a problem with priests and that reform was and is needed.

    Physical safety and preserving freedoms will always be violated by bad people in any arena.
    Sure but we're talking about trends and systemic issues here.

    It's a people issue not an occupational issue.
    I never said it was an occupational issue. There's actually a number of factors involved that can vary by jurisdiction, but ultimately it's an issue the whole country needs to face especially since those with the most power to bring about change are the least likely to be victims of abuse.

    It appears you just have a chip on your shoulder and are opposed to authority as a matter of personal principle; not that you're actually using sound and reasonable logic in your arguments.


    Way to use a strawman argument in a sentence in which you also accuse me of not using logic. Where have I not used logic? I have no issues with police or authority quite the contrary actually since I'm a proud conservative. I just hate injustice and abuse of power.

    Speaking of logic and reason, do you still stand by your statement that the officer in the first video is not a criminal? Because if you can't identify a criminal when they're wearing a blue uniform then you're only proving my point.
    Last edited by Beorn; 09-27-2014 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Refined my argument
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Because it's misrepresenting. It's assuming police have a far higher rate of misconduct than, say, teachers (who are rarely ever truly fired for their misconduct outside of sexual assaults), doctors (who lose their licenses all the time, even moreso than teachers are fired), and nurses, who have upwards of 500+ suspensions/court mandates on their licenses every quarter and America voted them the most trusted profession out there. There are plenty of misconducts if you bother to go looking for them. I can show off horrible, terrible examples of nurses all day long based on public knowledge that the board reports all the time... but that doesn't really represent the majority of the population of nurses. They're a vast minority when you consider 500 quarterly = somewhere around 2,000 annually and that's only 3% of the practicing, employed nurses in the state. Very low rate. But if I focus on that, it sounds massive and awful and like all nurses are fuck ups. All professions have their fuck ups. That's society and human nature. There isn't a single work environment safe from it.

    I'm not saying don't make a thread--by all means go for it sure. But why would it be offensive? Pretty obvious why. Good cops and good citizens that like cops and respect them hate police brutality shit just as much as the next person. I used to deal with this in the army a lot too--there were liberal people that'd spit at the ground at me because they thought I kicked a box of puppies off a cliff--as if I was that one individual fucked up marine even though I was the wrong age, location, gender, force, and pretty much anything else that would have anything to do with that guy. It sucks seeing police fuck up for everyone.. so.. I'm not offended by 'exposing' fuck ups. At all. But ... The connotation of collecting massive amounts of videos without a real concrete direction or point is sort of under the pretense of saying, "Look how fucked up ALL police are."
    Of all those groups you list, only the police investigate themselves when a crime is committed.

    The problem with the police isn't a problem of a "few bad apples". It's a cultural problem that is deeper and far more expansive than just a "few bad apples". We have a system that incentivizes bad behavior and lying by police officers. For every instance of misconduct we know about, there are thousands we never hear about.

    No one forces that mentality onto others. It's agreed upon. The police didn't make this mentality... and if they tried, you lapped it up quick and without hesitation and conveniently met them halfway on it. For every unnecessary crime a police officer has made, there are 100 examples of completely necessary police work that saved lives, helped children get out of rancid homes, and actually protected and served. I'm pretty sure if you want to see ugly things, you'll see them just fine with or without the help of any police.
    The police created this mentality with the War on Drugs. Anyone can be a drug user. That makes us all potential criminals. Therefore, we are all enemies.
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