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  1. #341
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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  2. #342

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    Apparently, compared to some other notable Western Countries, USA wins FIRST PRIZE in the # of fatal police shootings in a year (2011). Woo hoo!

    USA: 404
    compared to its next highest,

    AUS: 6


    Source: Why Do US Police Kill So Many People - Business Insider



    Then, you have the apologists coming in, like David A. Klinger.

    Drawing on FBI figures and his own research, University of Missouri–St. Louis criminologist David A. Klinger counts 1,265 murders in his city from 2003 through 2012. Approximately 90 percent of those killed were black, reports Klinger, a former LAPD officer. Among these 1,138 decedents, roughly 90 percent (1,025) were slain by other blacks. Klinger found 32 blacks killed by cops, with 22 of them shot dead by white officers. So, across 10 years, white cops killed a whopping 2 percent of St. Louis’s black homicide victims. Investigations indicated that all of these police killings were legally justified.​

    “While I understand the people are concerned about the use of deadly force by the police, by far — about 50 to 1 — more blacks in St. Louis are killed by other blacks as compared to white police officers,” Klinger told KMOX-TV.

    Source: The Silence around Ferguson | National Review Online
    LOL at the bar graph, though!!

    Seriously? Is this even a comparison?

    It basically boils down to this argument:

    Oh, look, our officers killed 32 black people in 10 years (averaging at 3.2 fatal shootings by cops, a year, in ONE CITY), and all were investigated and found legally justified (), but that's so insignificant compared to how many blacks are killed by other blacks!! Why are no one protesting those murders? Why only protesting against the poor cops?

    He must be trolling!! PhD or not!! Comparing police "killings" to murders by the general public? Police officers, who are paid by the public's tax dollars to SERVE and PROTECT, and use deadly force, as a last resort, compared to the general populace who have NO such obligations, as a standard for code for conduct. Why the fuck would you hold them to the same standard as the general populace? Does that mean anyone can be the police? Seems like it. But, wait.....Yet, in the same breath, justifying the uniqueness of the police force, and the stress of the job. The mind boggles at the mental gymnastics.

    How many people were killed by police, in general, regardless of race? Would be interesting to see what % those 32 black people represent out of all killed by police. I'm gonna guess majority. Wild guess.

  3. #343
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Yeah, the real tragedy with police brutality is that officers are afraid they'll lose their jobs or go to prison.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Yeah, the real tragedy with police brutality is that officers are afraid they'll lose their jobs or go to prison.
    Not to mention the officers' emotional toll of shooting someone.

    The emotional toll on the families of the innocents, who were "mistaken" as criminals and killed?

    No, no, no!!!

    Specifically talking about the CRIMINALS they kill. Never any innocents. You see, they're all legally justified. Look, even made sure to highlight that by including it in the title!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Because, of course, logically, as a cop, the only people they'll EVER kill are criminals who deserved it. The title makes it clear, who is who: the good guys/the bad guys. If that's not hedging....

  5. #345
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    The families of criminals get what they deserve for raising a criminal. Samaria Rice allowed her 12 year old son to become a thug who played with toy guns. Both Tamir and Samaria got what they deserved. And the real tragedy is that the police officer has to worry about the possibility that he'll be fired or prosecuted.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #346
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Not to mention the officers' emotional toll of shooting someone.

    The emotional toll on the families of the innocents, who were "mistaken" as criminals and killed?

    No, no, no!!!

    Specifically talking about the CRIMINALS they kill. Never any innocents. You see, they're all legally justified. Look, even made sure to highlight that by including it in the title!!

    Because, of course, logically, as a cop, the only people they'll EVER kill are criminals who deserved it. The title makes it clear, who is who: the good guys/the bad guys. If that's not hedging....
    It's almost as if you are being deliberately obtuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klinger
    One officer, for example, excused himself when he started to cry only a few seconds after starting to relate the anguish he felt about shooting a man who had pointed what looked like a real but turned out to be a toy gun at him.

    Read more: What I Learned After I Killed a Criminal - David A. Klinger - POLITICO Magazine
    Quote Originally Posted by David Klinger
    Not every police shooting is justified. It would appear that the recent killing of Walter Scott by former North Charleston police officer Michael Slager falls into the category of an illegal killing, and I have testified against police officers in the wake of legally dubious shootings. Moreover, some non-trivial fraction of lawful officer-involved shootings—such as the one in which a young Cleveland police officer killed Tamir Rice earlier this year—could be avoided through the use of sound police tactics, such as keeping distance from armed suspects, when possible.

    Read more: What I Learned After I Killed a Criminal - David A. Klinger - POLITICO Magazine
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    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  7. #347
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    It's almost as if you are being deliberately obtuse.
    The important thing everyone needs to understand is that the police are the victims.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #348
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #349
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post

    The probability of an officer shooting death is lower than ever. When the police say they are under fire, they don't mean by criminals. They're referring to public criticism and they're trying to garner sympathy.
    Oh Jesus Christ. Story after story in the media that is sliming law enforcement and pushing the sensational and compelling narrative that all police are racist, power hungry and murderous. There's one piece about the criticism that law enforcement has been receiving which lays out numbers and stats and it's because they're "trying to garner sympathy"? Who is "they" anyways? What's the problem with analyzing all sides? What's the problem with a news source taking a different look? There is no problem. That's the way it should be.

    I love civilians who have no first hand knowledge or experience of police work that criticize and Monday morning quarterback. Some people should sign up for a few ride alongs with a busy city police department. I think a lot of opinions would adjust and eyes would be opened.

    "There is no "nice" way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we're too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our faces. We want them to "take care of the problem." We just don't want to see how it's done."

    -Charles Webb, Ph.D.

  10. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    "There is no "nice" way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we're too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our faces. We want them to "take care of the problem." We just don't want to see how it's done."

    -Charles Webb, Ph.D. .
    Total bullshit.

    1. I was trained to restrain dangerous and combative people and if I had ever hurt anyone my ass would be sitting in a jail cell.

    2. They're innocent until proven guilty and you denigrate all civilians when you label all people police come into contact with as "bad guys."

    The job is "Protect and serve" not "get bad guys" which is an absurd simplification for anyone let alone a PhD.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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