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  1. #211
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Garner didn't die from being choked out... He died for resisting arrest while already being in very poor health (obesity, asthma and possible heart disease). Someone who legitimately can not breathe from having their windpipe cut off would not be able to clearly say "I can't breathe." He died from positional asphyxia where his obesity was a contributing factor in and of itself.

    Man in chokehold death had no throat damage: autopsy | New York Post
    The coroner ruled it a homicide by "compression of neck (chokehold), compression of chest, and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.”

    The facts are:
    Pantaleo intended to use a banned chokehold.
    But for the use of the chokehold Garner would not have died.

    His physical problems are irrelevant to an indictment for the purposes of causation even if they contributed to his death. The physical problems garner had and the potential lack of damage to the throat may be relevant to intent. They could only go to show that there was nothing malicious about Pantaleo's actions.

    However, using a banned chokehold under these circumstances could still reasonably be considered reckless and given that it caused his death it should be enough to at least get an indictment for involuntary manslaughter.

    There's a reason why chokeholds are banned and it's because when they're used on people like Eric Garner they may die.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
    Likes Ivy, gromit liked this post

  2. #212
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Re: Garner shouldn't have resisted arrest when he was being harassed (allegedly) for selling loosies.

    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
    Likes Nicodemus liked this post

  3. #213
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Garner didn't die from being choked out... He died for resisting arrest while already being in very poor health...
    Exactly. And John Wrana didn't die from bean bags being shot at his chest, he died of old age.

    War veteran John Wrana, 95, dies after police shoot him with Taser and bean bag rounds | Daily Mail Online
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #214
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    There's a reason why chokeholds are banned and it's because when they're used on people like Eric Garner they may die.
    "If you don't do exactly what the police tell you to do, you deserve to die." -Authoritarians
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #215
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    The day there stops being two different justice systems, one for civilians, and another for the police, is the day this will stop. Consequences.

  6. #216
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    The day there stops being two different justice systems, one for civilians, and another for the police, is the day this will stop. Consequences.
    As long as the police have political influence, that will never happen. They don't want consequences for even the "bad cops" because police departments have become overwhelmingly corrupt. I'm beginning to think this is hopeless.

    The police can kill with impunity. And now they even have the gall to whine like babies when people speak out about it.



    If Jeffrey Follmer got his way, he would get to execute Andrew Hawkins. That's what this terrorist really wants.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #217
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post


    If Jeffrey Follmer got his way, he would get to execute Andrew Hawkins. That's what this terrorist really wants.
    Good interviewer. He calls out the bullshit. The Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, on the other hand, might want to look for a more able and sympathetic spokesperson. Jeffrey Follmer is not helping their case. "Do as you are told or we shoot you" is not the message you want to get across... I hope.

  8. #218
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Oh, police unions can do much, much worst.

    The arrest this week of two ex-cop private investigators—charged with felonies related to their alleged attempt to set up a Costa Mesa city councilman for a false DUI — is about more than the disturbing tactics of two hired guns. It offers insight into the way some police unions across California intimidate political opponents into silence.

    This ugly story starts in 2012. Councilmen Jim Righeimer, Stephen Mensinger, and Gary Monahan were loathed by the city's police union because of their efforts to reduce pension liabilities and outsource services. Costa Mesa had become Ground Zero in our state's battle over reform, drawing protests reminiscent of the fracas between Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) and unions at the capitol in Madison.

    A political dispute is one thing, but on August 22 of that year it turned into something the Orange County District Attorney says is a serious criminal matter.

    Righeimer left a council meeting and met with Monahan at the latter's restaurant and bar, drank a couple diet sodas and left. Righeimer got home and went inside his house—but soon had police knocking on his door, asking him to step outside for a DUI test. He was detained for a while, but wasn't drunk.

    The police action was prompted by private investigators Chris Lanzillo and Scott Impola, who were working for a law firm that represented more than 120 police unions across California. This included the Costa Mesa Police Officers Association, which retained it to do "candidate research."

    Continued at:
    How Far Will Cop Unions Go to Halt Reform? - Reason.com
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #219
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    It is a serious misunderstanding of responsibilties if police primarily serve and protect themselves. You need more Serpicos.

  10. #220
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You need more Serpicos.
    Well, let's not go too far...

    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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