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  1. #1
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Default Abortion, gay rights, and other social issues.

    Am I the only one that thinks things like these have been pushed to the forefront of our attention as a distraction from some of the more pressing issues with our country (USA). Why the hell does it matter if the president supports abortion or not, he is not going to be able to change Roe vs. Wade. Why is gayness even being discussed, I thought this was a secular country (seperation between church and state) and religious issues like this should not be even in the front of our debates, yet the media always seems to be pushing it and crap.

    I just think that alot of these little issues come up and distract us from some of the real problems, like us spending enough money to feed the whole world maybe 6 times over on a war we shouldn't be in. Maybe issues like how the bleep your going to stop or slow down the fall of our currency. Or how about issues like why 1/3 of American adults don't have health care and it is being run like a business for profit. Maybe a debate on how the money for war could be put into more education programs so maybe we can move up a few spots on the education ladder (Compared to the world, our children are retarded).

    /Rant, anyway whats your opinions on this.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks things like these have been pushed to the forefront of our attention as a distraction from some of the more pressing issues with our country (USA).
    No, but all of you are silly.

  3. #3
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    I think you're half right. Democrats and liberals have been saying these issues are used on the Right as a way of distracting people, and that's true, but it's got to the point were people really care about issues like gay marriage, flag burning, 10 Commandments on public land...etc. Airing these issues must bring in good ratings for the media, these places are about profits first and foremost.

    Also, these are very "visual" issues, so maybe talking about them instead of education reform will keep the average persons interest longer.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks things like these have been pushed to the forefront of our attention as a distraction from some of the more pressing issues with our country (USA). Why the hell does it matter if the president supports abortion or not, he is not going to be able to change Roe vs. Wade. Why is gayness even being discussed, I thought this was a secular country (separation between church and state) and religious issues like this should not be even in the front of our debates, yet the media always seems to be pushing it and crap.
    I agree. For a few decades, too, abortion and gay issues have been the focus of the conservative church and other issues have fallen by the wayside. (I think it's sort of still a reaction of the baby boomer crowd to the sexual permissiveness of the late 60's and 70's.)

    Gen Y kids are growing less and less interested in arguing about gay marriage (i.e., they support it) although the Gen Y church kids are more focused on prohibiting abortion.

    In the meanwhile, the church (and thus the politics) has been pushing poverty, health care, and other important issues to the back burner. It definitely is not a "hot pulpit topic" like abortion or gay rights is. This has been changing some over the last few years but has a long way to go.

    However, abortion is not necessarily just a "religious" argument, it gets approached as a political/legal argument where people argue over who has rights as citizens and at what stage of life. It's relevant politically if gestating humans are credited with the same rights as newborn infants, because then we are in effect murdering "citizens" and violating their rights. You can't draw a clear line that makes abortion merely a religious issue.

    I just think that alot of these little issues come up and distract us from some of the real problems, like us spending enough money to feed the whole world maybe 6 times over on a war we shouldn't be in. Maybe issues like how the bleep your going to stop or slow down the fall of our currency. Or how about issues like why 1/3 of American adults don't have health care and it is being run like a business for profit. Maybe a debate on how the money for war could be put into more education programs so maybe we can move up a few spots on the education ladder (Compared to the world, our children are retarded). /Rant, anyway whats your opinions on this.
    That's my opinion, in general, although there are lots of details involved on why it is difficult to implement national health care and fight poverty and improve education. Conceptually, though, I see those as more valuable targets of our resources than "banning gay marriage."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  5. #5
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Totally agree. I've always thought the gay marriage thing especially was a red herring meant to distract people from issues that, you know, matter.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #6
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Mind you guys, I am not saying that gay rights and abortion are not important, its just you have to set your priorities.

    I know its hard to set up a national health care plan, and its also hard to raise the education standards, but at the rate we're pissing money away, it shouldn't be too hard. Heck if most of Europe and Canada can achieve it, I think we can outspend them in this area if money is the issue.

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    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Again, I totally agree. I'm very much in favor of gay rights (human rights, to be more precise) and abortion is a complicated ethical issue that I'm ambivalent about in many ways. But it usually seems like these issues are not actually addressed, just kind of brought up as a figurehead.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    Mind you guys, I am not saying that gay rights and abortion are not important, its just you have to set your priorities.
    I think that in general, these issues are more or less thought of as indicators of the general trend of the society's outlook. You can see if the trend is leftward or rightward based on where we are and where the momentum is on these issues. Consequently, people who are passionate about the future of the country work hard in these two areas, because it's like a tug-of-war. Which side of the line is the little ribbon on, and which way is it moving?

    With regard to abortion, it is quite reasonable to take an ethical stance against abortion without bringing religion into the conversation. To wit: If we can designate human organisms as non-persons based on the age or physical stage of development of the individual organism, we set the precedent that a human organism is or is not a person based on empirical criteria. It is by no means established, however, that age or physical stage of development are the only criteria by which personhood can be granted or denied. Therefore, nothing prevents us from designating other unwanted human organisms as non-persons...the same line of reasoning that justified Dachau.

    It is reasonable, therefore, to grant blanket personhood to all human organisms as an ethical postulate; to say, in other words, that all human organisms are human beings. It would help to keep our society out of a deep and dangerous ethical quagmire.

  9. #9
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    These issues affect people on a gut level, and it's much easier to get up in arms about them, as opposed to issues that involve deeper thought and an understanding of modern politics and economics. Many politicians don't even understand the bills they write up and sign all year long.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Maybe it's time for you all to stop voting and consenting to such a retarded form of choosing leadership.
    wails from the crypt.

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