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  1. #41
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Because money can be wasted? And it's really easy to waste money when the government is involved? Generally, corporations try to MAKE money, and they won't waste it, if possible. If you have "free money," there is less incentive there. The government shouldn't be in the business of lining scientists' and corporate managers' pockets.
    There are thousands of medical and scientific breakthroughs of which we all take advantage of that publicly funded universities have made.

    They don't have the same profit incentive private companies have, yet they continue to produce.

  2. #42
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    There are thousands of medical and scientific breakthroughs of which we all take advantage of that publicly funded universities have made.

    They don't have the same profit incentive private companies have, yet they continue to produce.
    I never argued that they didn't do good work, and I am not against public schooling on principle. I just think that the federal government should be much smaller, and it should concern itself with a very short list of things to do. Doling out money for research that can be done in the private sector would not be on that list.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #43
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    There are thousands of medical and scientific breakthroughs of which we all take advantage of that publicly funded universities have made.

    They don't have the same profit incentive private companies have, yet they continue to produce.
    FYI, most of the funding for public universities comes from state and not federal government. Of course there are always federal research grants and such. But overall the universities exist because of state funding, and PhD's are expected to do research regardless of whether or not they get a grant. So federal funding is not necessary in making scientific breakthroughs.
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  4. #44
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    FYI, most of the funding for public universities comes from state and not federal government. Of course there are always federal research grants and such. But overall the universities exist because of state funding, and PhD's are expected to do research regardless of whether or not they get a grant. So federal funding is not necessary in making scientific breakthroughs.
    Yeah I should have just said "government funding".

  5. #45
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    FYI, most of the funding for public universities comes from state and not federal government. Of course there are always federal research grants and such. But overall the universities exist because of state funding, and PhD's are expected to do research regardless of whether or not they get a grant. So federal funding is not necessary in making scientific breakthroughs.

    If you don't get funding, you can't really do research in your own lab. You can go work in someone elses lab, or you can research the galvanic nail and copper penny lemon buffer battery.

    PS: My brothers lab gets most of their money from guess who? Ze military, they give out ze best grants, anything to kill people will be paid for. NIH is good, but its really hard to get a grant from them, then again this is for health areas also. Yeah but most of their departments funding comes from the military.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I never argued that they didn't do good work, and I am not against public schooling on principle. I just think that the federal government should be much smaller, and it should concern itself with a very short list of things to do. Doling out money for research that can be done in the private sector would not be on that list.
    AJ, why are you arguing with an SJ, these guys are notorious for not caring about the children suffering, they just don't want you to touch their taxes. (J/K)

    If anyone takes me seriously they will be shot. Period, end of questions.

  7. #47
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    If you don't get funding, you can't really do research in your own lab. You can go work in someone elses lab, or you can research the galvanic nail and copper penny lemon buffer battery.

    PS: My brothers lab gets most of their money from guess who? Ze military, they give out ze best grants, anything to kill people will be paid for. NIH is good, but its really hard to get a grant from them, then again this is for health areas also. Yeah but most of their departments funding comes from the military.
    It's true that some types of research are more expensive than others. Like most things a physicist would research can get pretty expensive. Although universities often partner with businesses to develop technology, so federal grants still aren't necessary. Without federal funding expensive research would decrease, but universities would partner with businesses more out of necessity.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It's true that some types of research are more expensive than others. Like most things a physicist would research can get pretty expensive. Although universities often partner with businesses to develop technology, so federal grants still aren't necessary. Without federal funding expensive research would decrease, but universities would partner with businesses more out of necessity.
    Yep, they would partner more. Businesses would also contribute a lot more capital to research. Right now, businesses know government will pay for the research if they don't. Not until the research is nearing completion do business have an incentive to get involved (profit). Government intervention has changed expectation, and a reduction of private research funding is a direct consequence.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    They do more than simply not fund it, Gingrich made it illegal to use embryonic stem cells in places where federal funding is happening. That's a little more than just not funding it.
    No, he didn't make it illegal. No one would have been sent to prison (unless they were committing fraud). Any research institution not meeting the government's new guidelines would've had their funding revoked.

    Gingrich couldn't do anything like that alone, either. He was never a king or even president.

    Think about all the ridiculous things the government funds, this could save mine or your life someday, might as support it getting funding anyway possible. Is it really not worth .00001% of your income?
    I already said I'm all for stem cell research. I disagree with your assumptions that federal funding is the best approach.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The government funds lots of medical endeavors, the money usually goes to research like it's suppose to for the most part...I don't know how you get the idea that funding the stem cell research more could be negative or indifferent to stem cell research...show me some scenarios of that.
    Whenever the government starts funding something, it creates a special interest group. When that group becomes established, its objectives change. It no longer has a single objective (research). A new objective is created, one of self-preservation of the group, itself. Those objectives often contradict one another. Over time, it becomes more and more inefficient as the group seeks to preserve itself, rather staying true to its original objective.

    And the funding could co to universities or public research labs...why do you assume it could only go to private companies?? I believe most stem cell research right now is being done on universities.
    Public universities receive a lot of private money for research. Not as much as they used to, but still a lot.

    Ideas like yours hold back medical and scientific progress.
    This statement is simply not true.

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