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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    Kinda on the same page with SilentMusings, that we would see a change in behavior if we changed certain conditions.
    As in denying healthcare and education to children born to these families? That's not going to improve anything. I mean, I certainly think conditions need to be changed. What sort of changes are you talking about?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    I think it would be more inhumane to not let children have access to healthcare or education who were simply unfortunate enough to be born to parents who are financially or emotionally unfit to raise them, than it would be to sterilize adults who don't have the means to raise children. Plus, if an impoverished person finds themselves financially stable later in life, they can have the procedure reversed.
    Would you sterilise people who had some income, say a low-paying job, but were partly dependent on welfare?

    Potentially you are looking at quite a large proportion of the population, and I'm concerned that it could disproportionately target young couples in their 20s as well. It is common knowledge that older parents, especially older mothers, produce less healthy offspring. I am not a conservative (at least not in the American sense), in that I have no problem with a welfare state. I just want it scaled back.

    I don't think that people should be having children if the majority of their income comes from benefits of some sort. The ramifications should be made clear to people before they agree to going on benefits. People know what I think about immigration and asylum as well, I think I've talked about that enough...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    As in denying healthcare and education to children born to these families? That's not going to improve anything. I mean, I certainly think conditions need to be changed. What sort of changes are you talking about?
    Private charities would fill in the gaps, and it would be a different sort of service, maybe with more Christian leanings.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Would you sterilise people who had some income, say a low-paying job, but were partly dependent on welfare?
    Yes, if they have any children they can't fully support on their own income. Of course, this is an idealized, over-simplification. Details would have to be worked out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Potentially you are looking at quite a large proportion of the population, and I'm concerned that it could disproportionately target young couples in their 20s as well. It is common knowledge that older parents, especially older mothers, produce less healthy offspring.
    Indeed. Imagine the money that would be saved from not paying all of these families to raise children, many of whom aren't even getting an adequate education or being instilled with any sense of morality. I imagine the crime rate would decrease significantly. The statistics of children being born to impoverished, unwed teenage girls is appalling.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    Yes, if they have any children they can't fully support on their own income. Of course, this is an idealized, over-simplification. Details would have to be worked out.
    That is too extreme even for me. I can foresee potential demographic and health issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    Indeed. Imagine the money that would be saved from not paying all of these families to raise children, many of whom aren't even getting an adequate education or being instilled with any sense of morality. I imagine the crime rate would go down significantly. The statistics of children being born to impoverished, unwed teenage girls is appalling.
    Imagine all the money you would have to pay in the future due to a much greater proportion of children being born with genetic diseases! Besides, girls would be less hot. Ouch.

    I am not talking about unwed teenage girls but a long term boyfriend and girlfriend in their early 20s, or a married couple in their mid 20s. Both are likely to try their best to raise the child, but just don't have the money to do it completely by themselves. This is why I do not identify as a conservative, just as a nationalist (well, "nationalist" has a different feel to it...more impact, lol). I have no issue with a welfare state, it just needs to be significantly reformed.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    That is too extreme even for me. I can foresee potential demographic and health issues.



    Imagine all the money you would have to pay in the future due to a much greater proportion of children being born with genetic diseases! Besides, girls would be less hot. Ouch.

    I am not talking about unwed teenage girls but a long term boyfriend and girlfriend in their early 20s, or a married couple in their mid 20s. Both are likely to try their best to raise the child, but just don't have the money to do it completely by themselves. This is why I do not identify as a conservative, just as a nationalist (well, "nationalist" has a different feel to it...more impact, lol). I have no issue with a welfare state, it just needs to be significantly reformed.
    I don't see the correlation between sterilization and more children being born with genetic diseases.

    I'm not talking about sterilizing the impoverished BEFORE they have children; only after having produced a child which they can't take care of. I wouldn't make exceptions for the long term boyfriend/girlfriend in their early 20's. If the divorce rate is any indication, they probably won't be together for very long anyway and the mother will be trying to raise it by herself and the father may go to jail if he's unable to pay child support.

    There was a young single mother being interviewed by our local news station the other day who works at McDonald's and is on strike, demanding they raise her wages to $15/hour so she can raise her three kids at home. Though I do think the minimum wage should be raised, she shouldn't have three children in the first place on that kind of income, nor should taxpayers have to fund it. If people aren't going to be responsible with their sperms and eggs, the govt needs to intervene if the govt is going to be expected to foot the bill.

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  8. #38
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    The first sentence pretty much sums up the issue:

    "The incident that occurred last night is a true depiction of lack of parenting,' said Police Director Toney Armstrong.

    In the coming days, Director Armstrong said he will be working closely with juvenile court and the District Attorney's office to craft a plan to hold parents accountable more often.

    This grandmother says accountability can start with the teen's father, who is not involved with raising her grandson.

    "His daddy is not a male role model, that's my son and he's not," said the grandmother, "I hope he looks at this news thing and sees me saying this since he never wants to listen to me, he needs to be more involved in his child's life."
    With any other job you have to meet certain qualifications, but in order to have a kid, or two, or five, you simply need testicles or ovaries. Whether or not a person is psychologically or financially fit to raise a child isn't even taken into consideration.

  9. #39
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    Update: The 15-year old who was seen in the video kicking the victim unconscious doesn't go to school and was out of jail on gun-related charges. Because he is a minor, his name will not be released, his criminal record will be expunged when he turns 18 and he'll legally be able to purchase a firearm. Good job, America.

    Not surprisingly, most news sources have essentially ignored this story since it was first reported.

  10. #40
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    Oh no. This is certainly not an issue of race as much as it is an issue of culture and education. Such teenagers were not raised within the development of a positively nurturing environment and are often exposed to seeing such cruelty. With an addition to peer pressures of adhering to such a culture, it is no surprise that it is something they become accustomed to. In an indirect manner, being on a poorer end of a spectrum inclines the lives of such individuals to formulate in a surviving and striving manner therefore a more rough character is maintained through such. Perceptive and stereotypical bias is formed because of the lack of intellect grown in such also. So education is another key to solving such issues, where if the values are nurtured in the individual, they become more accustomed to greater knowledge, to which empathy is born through the abilities to alter perceptive viewpoints. The situation in the video was indeed an unfortunate insight into the values nurtured through the rougher areas of society but not into the race.

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