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  1. #21
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In a way, this article is unnecessarily complex. Their big point is in regards to GDP per capita. In that case, one might as well just compare the two nation states as a whole.

    GDP PC of the USA: $52,800

    GDP PC of the UK: $37,300

    The USA is ahead by $15,500 overall. Apparently the variation between states of the US is only dramatic enough for one state's GDP PC to fall below $37,300.

    You'll notice my numbers are slightly different. I drew mine from the CIA, I did not see (if listed) were that article drew its numbers, but the point is still made and let us just assume the adjustment does not break rank.

    I prefer doing it this way because it completely skips the act of comparing sovereign nations with individual states of the USA, a comparison that I think is highly problematic (ask yourself if Alaska would have a GDP of 59 billion as a sovereign state). And at any rate, it should come as no surprise to anyone who knows much about the economies of the world. If you want to bash the USA, sheer abundance of wealth would probably be your single worst point of attack.
    Basicly, I agree with this. It's a pretty odd way of comparing too nations.

    It might be more enlightening to look at the standards of living for the poorest in both countries. Despite the USAs greater overall wealth, I suspect the poorer citizens are worse off. A lot of oil producing countries have decent GDPs, but most of the money is in the hands of a few super rich oil sheiks.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  2. #22
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole
    And the fruit of the American Dream is the greatest inequality in the developed world.
    Inequality is a function of personal liberty. In a free society, you have a choice to sit under the freeway overpass and do nothing all day or you can spend every waking moment scheming to make money like Warren Buffett. The hobo is happy because he's free from the constraints of a job and Buffett is happy because he has the status. Forcing equality on the lazy and the driven/ambitious is downright immoral.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #23
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Inequality is a function of personal liberty. In a free society, you have a choice to sit under the freeway overpass and do nothing all day or you can spend every waking moment scheming to make money like Warren Buffett. The hobo is happy because he's free from the constraints of a job and Buffett is happy because he has the status. Forcing equality on the lazy and the driven/ambitious is downright immoral.
    Nonsense.

    Countries with high inequality (Gini coefficient), like in Latin America or Africa, aren't especially "free".

    Inequality is not linked with personal liberty AT ALL in the real world.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Nonsense.

    Countries with high inequality (Gini coefficient), like in Latin America or Africa, aren't especially "free".

    Inequality is not linked with personal liberty AT ALL in the real world.
    It sounds like he's talking about financial inequality, not other types of inequality, such as in countries where certain classes of citizens don't have a voice.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  5. #25
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Basicly, I agree with this. It's a pretty odd way of comparing too nations.

    It might be more enlightening to look at the standards of living for the poorest in both countries. Despite the USAs greater overall wealth, I suspect the poorer citizens are worse off. A lot of oil producing countries have decent GDPs, but most of the money is in the hands of a few super rich oil sheiks.
    It's also true.

    As a matter of fact, the economic situation of the majority of Americans has worsened in the past decades, while the rich have become super rich.

    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Nonsense.

    Countries with high inequality (Gini coefficient), like in Latin America or Africa, aren't especially "free".

    Inequality is not linked with personal liberty AT ALL in the real world.
    Yeah, economic inequality has a somewhat negative relationship to both civic literacy and social mobility, so it pans out neither politically nor financially.

    It also has no meaningful correlation with total wealth either, only a marginally negative one.
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  7. #27
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail!
    Nonsense.

    Countries with high inequality (Gini coefficient), like in Latin America or Africa, aren't especially "free".

    Inequality is not linked with personal liberty AT ALL in the real world.
    In free market systems, inequality is correlated with personal liberty. I never said that inequality doesn't occur in oppressive leftist societies, but there is a huge difference between inequality that arises from choice (to sit around and wait for the welfare check) and inequality that arises from tyranny or corrupt regimes (as in Africa). One is preferable (and I think desirable) while the other is not.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #28
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Inequality is a function of personal liberty. In a free society, you have a choice to sit under the freeway overpass and do nothing all day or you can spend every waking moment scheming to make money like Warren Buffett. The hobo is happy because he's free from the constraints of a job and Buffett is happy because he has the status. Forcing equality on the lazy and the driven/ambitious is downright immoral.
    The continuing problem for the USA is that it is part of Western Civilization, and the values of Western Civilization are freedom and equality.

    And the USA only embodies half of the values of Western Civilization, and that is, freedom.

    And because the USA has failed to embody the other half of the values of Western Civilization, namely, equality, the USA offers its citizens the sop of happiness.

    But just look around us: the largest presenting cause at USA doctor's surgeries is depression. And just look at the Americans on this site and do we find happiness, no, we find chronically unhappy Americans.

    American 'happiness' is a sop to make up for inequality.

  9. #29
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole
    But just look around us: the largest presenting cause at USA doctor's surgeries is depression. And just look at the Americans on this site and do we find happiness, no, we find chronically unhappy Americans.
    The reason why you have that perception is because the slice of humanity you see on this forum isn't representative of the larger population. Most internet sites are dominated by lefty young people and lefties tend to be more miserable for a myriad of reasons. People are happiest when they are free and in control of their destiny, when they have earned success.

    Also, the USA is doing better than average on depression. The most depressing areas are Africa and the Middle East.

    A stunning map of depression rates around the world

    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #30
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Also, the USA is doing better than average on depression. The most depressing areas are Africa and the Middle East.
    I am comparing the USA to the rest of Western Civilization, I am not comparing the USA to Africa or the Middle East.

    Your problem is that the USA is failing Western Civilization.

    And if USA success can only be measured against non Western States in Africa or the Middle East, then what value is USA 'success'?

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